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Subject: Helping the poor - US conservative Christians please respond to this rss

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related statistics

50 million US Poor
Almost 50 million people in the U.S. are poor using the supplemental measure, compared to the 47 million using the official measure. Food stamps (formally known as SNAP) keep about five million people out of poverty, according to the supplemental measure.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/11/06/243498168/how-m...



Americans Spend More Than $60 Billion Per Year on Pets
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/americans-will-spen...






http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/08/very-sad...





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Sam I am
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Everyone know that welfare queens sit around, pump out babies, eat lobster AND/or steak every night.
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Boaty McBoatface
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As I have said before, judge your Christianity by how much you act for the physical (as well as spiritual) will being of your fellow man. It's what the bible tells us to do, judge a man by his acts.
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Steve Cates
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Yes, serve the poor and help the needy. You don't have to steal other people's money with threat of violence to do that.

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Steve Cates
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The 50 million US poor you cite are as well off at the top 10% in Israel.
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Wendell
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ironcates wrote:
The 50 million US poor you cite are as well off at the top 10% in Israel.


I don't know how this chart was cooked up but it's utterly implausible that the poorest 10% in the USA have a life as good as the richest 10% in ITALY.
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Boaty McBoatface
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ironcates wrote:
Yes, serve the poor and help the needy. You don't have to steal other people's money with threat of violence to do that.

If so called Christianity acted like it this would not be necessary.
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J.D. Hall
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ironcates wrote:
Yes, serve the poor and help the needy. You don't have to steal other people's money with threat of violence to do that.



Hahahahaha!! Man that's funny....

Oh, you were serious?

When you return to reality, comment some more on this.

In the US (can't speak for other countries) we do a decent to good job of taking care of poor people. Could we do better? Certainly. A stronger partnership between the public and private sectors would allow for coordination of efforts, elimination of needless duplication and red tape, and hopefully streamline the process to enable more help to get to more people who need it.

I'm not saying every poor person is noble, struggling mightily with three jobs while trying to put food on the table and take night classes at the local community college. A lot of people are poor because of terrible decisions they made earlier in life or continue to make. A lot of people are poor because they're just frickin' lazy and sponge off the system. But a lot of poor people are poor because they don't have the intellect to obtain a really good job, or no access to education, or a medical emergency wiped out their savings, or many other reasons.

Christians aren't supposed to judge individuals, instead they are supposed to help others. Although I love Cobert, in this instance I think the US does a decent job of helping poor people...but not all poor people want to be helped, or somehow manage to fuck up the help you give them.
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remorseless1 wrote:
A lot of people are poor because of terrible decisions they made earlier in life or continue to make. A lot of people are poor because they're just frickin' lazy and sponge off the system. But a lot of poor people are poor because they don't have the intellect to obtain a really good job, or no access to education, or a medical emergency wiped out their savings, or many other reasons.

I'd be interested to see a percentage breakdown of each of your categories of poor.

My sense is most poor are working hard and doing the best they can, but still remain poor. These people could really use more help from society, along with the "dumb poor" you mention (also the sick bankrupt poor, disabled poor)

The following article seems to back me up:

1 in 3 US families classified as 'working poor,' higher for minorities
https://www.rt.com/usa/241289-us-minorities-working-poor/
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ironcates wrote:
The 50 million US poor you cite are as well off at the top 10% in Israel.

"Poor" is relative, depending on the cost of living, etc of where you live. You can't just compare incomes, you have to include the context. What are the "normalized indicators" in this graph. It's from the Economics, which is a legit source, I'll give you that.
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rcbevco wrote:
Everyone know that welfare queens sit around, pump out babies, eat lobster AND/or steak every night.


Some do. What % of fraud is acceptable to you ?
 
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Kevin Salch
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And when Christians do help the poor they get criticized for it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/nyregion/salvation-army-se...

http://www.religionnews.com/2015/05/13/conservative-religiou...

Christians do more to help the poor than they do for political advocacy.
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Jage
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remorseless1 wrote:

Christians aren't supposed to judge individuals, instead they are supposed to help others.


Not use the threat of violence to force others to help others.
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Jage
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Some people abuse the system. Some don't. I think that topic is ancillary to the actual issue, which is that forced charity is not charity.
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wifwendell wrote:
ironcates wrote:
The 50 million US poor you cite are as well off at the top 10% in Israel.


I don't know how this chart was cooked up but it's utterly implausible that the poorest 10% in the USA have a life as good as the richest 10% in ITALY.


People will cook up anything to justify their callous and selfish philosophy.
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jeremycobert wrote:
rcbevco wrote:
Everyone know that welfare queens sit around, pump out babies, eat lobster AND/or steak every night.


Some do. What % of fraud is acceptable to you ?


In terms of dollars? One dollar less then what the federal government doles out to corporations and farmers in the form of tax breaks and subsidies.
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Sam I am
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bjlillo wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
People will cook up anything to justify their callous and selfish philosophy.


Yeah, lefties do a great job of that, demanding that other people be forced to pay for the help they want government to provide people.


or corporations.
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Daniel
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I like the Colbert quote but it is often misapplied in efforts to elect politicians or enact political programs to redistribute wealth as if that is what the Christian call to charity and good works is all about. Christians aren't called to solve the world's problems, they are called to be a church, proclaim the Gospel, administer sacraments, and yes serve their neighbors by being good neighbors.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jageroxorz wrote:
Some people abuse the system. Some don't. I think that topic is ancillary to the actual issue, which is that forced charity is not charity.
No one is saying it is, they are saying that if Christians were as charitable as they claim and helped the poor (rather then say helped with a new church roof) then we might not need a welfare state.
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Christopher Seguin
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Ah, the famous "Christians don't help the poor" canard that makes its rounds every four years during a national election cycle, all while trying to paint Christians in a bad light because they dare to question the means in which the less fortunate are cared and provided for.

Would you like to see a copy of the cancelled checks that I personally wrote to the Cleveland Food Bank this year? I can also provide a copy of the grocery store receipt for the items that I bought to help stock our church's food panty last year? Or will my efforts towards feeding those less fortunate be ridiculed as "not enough" because I actually question the means by which the federal government wastes my taxpayer money that instead can be done on a local level more efficiently?

Seriously, if 10% of my federal annual tax burden went directly to the Cleveland Food Bank instead of the coffers of the US Treasury to be wasted via bureaucracy and red tape, then I can imagine that many more people will be well fed than they are currently.

EDIT: I think I need to add some more to this. And although this is anecdotal evidence, I think I have the right to use it here since Cobert and all of his lackeys think that Christians are a bunch of stingy bastards.

As many of you know (or might not know) I am a CPA that prepares tax returns for clients on a regular basis. I have been doing it for over 23 years. In my experience, those whom I know to be non-Christians have the tendency to have the lowest giving totals of all of my clients. And it doesn't matter if they are wealthy or not - the "Charitable Contribution" line on their Schedule A is completely empty. Occasionally, there will be a donation to their Alma mater or the private school where they send their children, but other than that, nothing! On the other hand, I just finished preparing a return for a client of mine that attends a church regularly. They gave about 15% of their income away to charitable causes (on about $55,000 of household income). About 1/3rd of their donations were to the church they attend - the rest went to local organizations that are geared towards helping the less fortunate find jobs, buy clothing, receive free meals, and quit doing drugs (among other noteworthy causes). That's what I see.

Yeah, anecdotal, fine. But it is unfair and uncalled for to consistently ridicule Christians as a "stingy lot" just because they prefer to be charitable through a means that doesn't involve the US Government.
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Adam Alleman
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Drew1365 wrote:
Huh. The poor and homeless haven't been an issue for 8 years. Suddenly, the press is poised to make them an issue again. I wonder why?


Maybe in your world. Obama has a abysmal record in this area, which is why I find the Faux News and right wing (mainstream) media label of "socialist" laughable.
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I'm not sure what you want me to respond to. If you'd like to study my life and judge whether I'm spending time and resources helping the poor and needy, you're welcome to do so. Let me know when you'd like to come visit.
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Adam Alleman
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chrisnd wrote:
Ah, the famous "Christians don't help the poor" canard that makes its rounds every four years during a national election cycle, all while trying to paint Christians in a bad light because they dare to question the means in which the less fortunate are cared and provided for.

Would you like to see a copy of the cancelled checks that I personally wrote to the Cleveland Food Bank this year? I can also provide a copy of the grocery store receipt for the items that I bought to help stock our church's food panty last year? Or will my efforts towards feeding those less fortunate be ridiculed as "not enough" because I actually question the means by which the federal government wastes my taxpayer money that instead can be done on a local level more efficiently?

Seriously, if 10% of my federal annual tax burden went directly to the Cleveland Food Bank instead of the coffers of the US Treasury to be wasted via bureaucracy and red tape, then I can imagine that many more people will be well fed than they are currently.


I agree. We have way too much money going to a worthless military complex. And by worthless I mean ineffective with the modern threats we have. I would much rather the United States help by feeding the worlds poor and exporting democracy. It would make recruiting for ISIS much more difficult. A rising tide lifts all boats.
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chrisnd wrote:
food panty

awww yeah
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