Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Core Worlds: Galactic Orders» Forums » General

Subject: I find Raven overpowered rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jan Horinek
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
Dan Dare, 1950
badge
Stairway scare, Dan Dare, who's there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have played over 40 two-player games and i cant help but find Raven the decisive World. I can't think of a game that was won by a player that didn't get Raven. We also play the restrictions of 8 bonus points max (from Raven). We are about to push the restrictions down to 5.

Anyone else shares the same opinion?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We play with 3 players and it's not generally an issue except sometimes with a tactics spam strategy.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Parks
United States
Somerset
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Quixotic Games: www.quixoticgames.com
badge
Dungeon Alliance: Available Now!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Raven's power can become decisive in playgroups that tend to hold onto their tokens more than other playgroups.

If this is the case in your playgroup, I thinking capping the bonus at 6 points (for a maximum total of 10) will probably bring it in line with other planets with a natural cap of 10 (Buono, for example).

Andrew
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eleon Forsht
United States
College Park
MD
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I seem to remember people putting an 8 point cap on Raven (and other cards that can be pumped up too strongly).

I have never seen someone win a game of core worlds without holding onto their tokens on a few places. It is very rare that using up a token will get you it's point value back (unless others have way more tokens than you).

Raven is very powerful, but in 4 to 5 player games it is not always a guarantee of victory.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frederic Bush
United States
Narberth
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Eleon wrote:
It is very rare that using up a token will get you it's point value back (unless others have way more tokens than you).


I would trade a point for a mystic brotherhood or knighthood token in a heartbeat.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
fbush555 wrote:
Eleon wrote:
It is very rare that using up a token will get you it's point value back (unless others have way more tokens than you).


I would trade a point for a mystic brotherhood or knighthood token in a heartbeat.


To be fair if you were leading in either the mystic brotherhood or knighthood, then you've literally just said that "I'd trade 1 point for 1 point-with-added-bonuses." Not a very profound or hard choice to make. However I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you meant you'd trade a point for the ability of the Mystic brotherhood/knighthood in a heartbeat.

My answer to you is if you find yourself in a situation where you badly need 3 cards or +2 military of course it's worth more than a point. But the returns on spending tokens diminish the more you spend. For example, would you give up 10 points for 30 cards all at once? Probably not in most situations cause you would lack the actions, and energy to play them plus you'd run out of worlds to conquer making you unable to turn all the cards in your hands into points effectively.

Above when Andrew said:

Andrew Parks wrote:
Raven's power can become decisive in playgroups that tend to hold onto their tokens more than other playgroups.

I find this a rather unfair characterization as he makes it sound like there are some people who view tokens as nothing more than points and ignores their abilities completely. In my experience there are times where someone will go neck deep into dominating a order. Being able to spend their tokens while generating more tokens in that order than they are spending. It's usually in cases like this where my group really sees someone with 10~20 tokens in a an order. Not cause they were hoarding them but rather because they generated them faster than they spent them.

That being said, while my group views the orders as being one of the best expansions we also think that they are kind unbalanced. Knighthood, Mining, Senate. Are all fine and very useful orders to have an extra token or 2 lying around in. Merchant isn't that bad either as it basically makes really expensive units pay for themselves and remains relevant throughout the game. Science is rather underpowered. There is a limit to how much you really want to buy over the whole game and it compares very unfavorably to Merchant and Mining who offer power at much more useful times.

The Brotherhood is badly badly OP. Someone who is running a small~medium sized deck can usually draw consistent power turns while making back tokens they spend. In fact, it's come to a point where the winning player almost always has tokens there.
Currently my group often agrees to play that the brotherhood draws just 2 cards. In fact one of my friends likes to reference the Magic Card "Ancestral Recall" whenever someone uses a token there (for those of you that don't know Ancestral Recall is considered one of the strongest magic cards ever printed and a comparable effect/cost as the brotherhood.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Parks
United States
Somerset
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Quixotic Games: www.quixoticgames.com
badge
Dungeon Alliance: Available Now!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi, J.

Please do not think that I was trying to disparage those who do not spend GO tokens as much as others. I simply meant that, having played the game with many different groups, there are some who spend them liberally and others who spend them sparingly. During our early playtests, we tended to fall somewhere in the first category, and therefore we did not see Raven as a problem at that time.

But I would never blame the player for a card being perceived as overpowered. That is first and foremost the designer's fault (i.e. me!) for not keeping other playstyles in mind while testing Raven.

Also, for what it's worth, our group tends to spend Brotherhood tokens less frequently than Science and Merchant Tokens, and Senate Tokens are usually horded more often than not. Again, this is simply a difference in playstyle and in no way is meant to impugn players who prefer some tokens over others.

Thanks for the discussion! meeple

Andrew
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.