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Mega Civilization» Forums » Rules

Subject: Inclusion and Exclusion of Minor Calamities rss

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Jim Scheiderich
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There are extensive description (pages 11-13) of set-up for 5-8,9-11, 12-14 and 15-18 players.

I understand the Trade card set-up (once the cards were sorted out... ) but am not grasping why the Minor Calamities are left out of play for the 5-8 and 12-14 player groups but included for 9-11 and 15-18 players.

If 5-8 or 9 you play either side (West or East; 10 P is West only and 11P East only. For 12P and up, you are playing both sides of the board. It seems that say when you move from 14 to 15 players these Minor Calamities get included?! Was this decided on the ratio of calamities to players or how exactly? In a 9P game you get 0.88 ratio 8 over 9); the highest on a two side game - West and East - is 1.33 (16 over 12). At 15P it goes to 1.07 ratio (16 over 15). You have a lumpy problem of 8 or 16 Minor Calamities - making the jump when you hit 12P.

Some comments by the designers on this would be appreciated. Play testing may have revealed that the jump to 16 calamities slowed a game too much.

Thanks!

It is entirely possible I missed discussion of this elsewhere. I could understand their removal for perhaps the fewest number of players but s the number climbs they are removed and then put back in...
 
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Matthias Reitberger
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A player to calamity ratio doesn't make sense, you should rather look at the trading card to calamity ratio.
 
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Jim Scheiderich
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Fair point. The below is based on a Trade Card summary I just put together so it could have some error...

So 5-8P has 118 Trade Cards (or 119 depending on West or East); Ratio is 6.83%

9P game is 8/177 or 4.52%

10P game is 8/235 = 3.4% and 11p 8/236 = 3.39%

All of the above are one side or the other West or East (with an occasional Civ slid to one side or the other.

A 12-14P game has NO minors but if it did the Ratio would be 16/238 = 6.72%

And, 15-18P with 16/296 = 5.4%

So there is enough variation across the values to not draw a lot of conclusions other than 5-8 and 12-14 have the highest ratios: 6.83% and 6.72%, respectively.

I think you could include as you like knowing you would take more hits for some size games.
 
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John Rodriguez
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LHIM wrote:
Fair point. The below is based on a Trade Card summary I just put together so it could have some error...

So 5-8P has 118 Trade Cards (or 119 depending on West or East); Ratio is 6.83%

9P game is 8/177 or 4.52%

10P game is 8/235 = 3.4% and 11p 8/236 = 3.39%

All of the above are one side or the other West or East (with an occasional Civ slid to one side or the other.

A 12-14P game has NO minors but if it did the Ratio would be 16/238 = 6.72%

And, 15-18P with 16/296 = 5.4%

So there is enough variation across the values to not draw a lot of conclusions other than 5-8 and 12-14 have the highest ratios: 6.83% and 6.72%, respectively.

I think you could include as you like knowing you would take more hits for some size games.


A few errors which will adjust your numbers:
* Games with 9-11 players do include minor calamities
* Games 12-14 Do not have minors - so I'm not sure why you are including them in your calculations?

I think if you make those adjustments it starts to look a bit more consistent (but not perfectly so)
 
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Jim Scheiderich
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Unless the published rules have changed (my hardcopy is far away right now). Please see p12.

Setting up the Game for 9-11 Players

You are playing East with 9 or 11 players (the rulebook has a conflict here); West with 10 players.

In any case, it says make sure the following cards are present "...and all 24 calamities". Since 9-11P is a one side or the other game (West/East) situation, there are 16 Major Calamities and then it certainly infers the other 8 are the Minor Calamities. Unfortunately, the Calamity cards were left off the Game Component section (2.).

The rules go on to explicitly state that the Minors are not used in games of 12-14P. You might see why I am asking.

If you have a better reference please let me know. I also have not read all the questions and what exists of the FAQ but the forums are here to sort this out.
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Gerart de Haan
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The Minor Calamities were indeed included to keep the proportion of calamities to the total number of trade cards balanced for all different player setups. This is demonstrated by the numbers below:

5-8P: 119 Commodities; 16 Calamities (16 Majors); Calamity rate = 11.9%
9-11P: 177 Commodities; 24 Calamities (16 Majors + 8 Minors); Calamity rate = 11.9%
12-14P: 238 Commodities; 32 Calamities (2*16 Majors); Calamity rate = 11.9%
15-18P: 296 Commodities; 48 Calamities (2*16 Majors + 2*8 Minors); Calamitity rate = 14.0%

For 5-8 players there are 2 sets of commodities per stack and 2 major calamities per stack (with the exception of stack #1).

For 9-11 players the number of commodities per stack is increased from 2 to 3; the number of calamities per stack is increased from 2 to 3 accordingly by adding the minor calamities.

For 12-14 players the total number of trade cards used in the game (West Block + East Block) is exactly twice the number used for 5-8 players, hence the rate of calamities in the trade card stacks is the same too.

For 15-18 players the rate of calamities in the game slightly increases as the number of (minor) calamities added (+50% calamity cards) is proportionally larger than the number of commodities added (+24% commodity cards). Due to the relatively low impact of the minor calamities compared to major calamities, though, this does not significantly affect game play.

Extensive playtesting with different numbers of players has demonstrated this methodology, although slightly complicated at first sight, works perfect for keeping the game balanced for a very wide range of player numbers.
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Jim Scheiderich
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Thank you for the reasoning behind the use of Minors!
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