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Subject: Why four is way less than ideal rss

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Matt D
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I broke our game literally two turns in last night.

I was playing Cain, and went first. On the second turn of the game, the player to my left drew the crisis where the current player can be sent to sickbay and the Admiral gets to look at one of his/her loyalty cards.

I successfully argue that since he had already drawn his cards and I go before him, he probably won't even suffer for being in Sick Bay. (The players knew the game enough to know that two full draws by Cain are likely to result in at least one XO). So we decided to go that route.

Sure enough, he's the Cylon.

Now in a larger game (or using a variant with a potential sympathizer), I may hold my tongue in case I end up joining his team. Hedge my bets and all. But with only one Cylon, the jig was up.

Now admittedly he could have played it off as saying I was the Cylon trying to get rid of a human. Certainly if I were a Cylon Cain I would absolutely try to brig a human player and then execute. And he did try. But by the time his next turn came around, I had used my OPG to blind jump because we had two base stars and nine raiders on the board and hadn't drawn a single jump icon this far in four turns. Pretty human action.

He tried unsuccessfully to brig me in his turn, and then his crisis would have put a centurion on board so he threw in his six yellow cards (in our infinite wisdom he was the only one drawing yellow) but we managed to pass.

It was all downhill from there for him.

So, anyone else ever have the Cylon successfully outed (ie all humans believe it) by their second turn?
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Dustin
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When playing with 3 or 4 players, I feel you must play with a rule that no one can look at anyones loyalty card for any reason.
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Kwijiboe
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I think, if this were the base game, things could have turned out differently.

As Cain, you had an action available to prove your human-ness. Also, if there was doubt--you could all take a peak at the other players loyalty via execution. Both are bad situations to be in for the lone Cylon agent.

Even you, as Cain, would not benefit all that much from executing a human (if the shoe were on the other foot). You would be outed immediately, the executed player could choose a new character to "complete" the crew's effectiveness. In the base game, the uncertainty protects the Cylon, presuming the Cylon is convincing enough.

But yes, four is less than ideal, if not a complete waste of time. I think that the setup you played with (and bad luck with the timing) contributed to a lackluster session.


 
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Bern Harkins
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I have seen Halo outed as the only Cylon in a four player game on turn ONE, and still win the game. Of course, this was only due to a freakishly unlucky Crisis deck (the Galactica jumped only once, and the end came from Population, as raiders swarmed the civilians).

The game was fun, but only due to luck. Four player can be a real snooze with an early reveal.
 
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Radulla wrote:
I have seen Halo outed as the only Cylon in a four player game on turn ONE, and still win the game. Of course, this was only due to a freakishly unlucky Crisis deck (the Galactica jumped only once, and the end came from Population, as raiders swarmed the civilians).

The game was fun, but only due to luck. Four player can be a real snooze with an early reveal.
I'm thinking folks may want to play games like Werewolf or Resistance if staying hidden is so important. At least with BSG, there are board mechanics to tide you through.
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Pasi Ojala
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I have been the second player to go and being executed before my turn as a cylon Tory.

Didn't break the game then, wouldn't break it now.

(Depends on which expansions/modules you play with.)
 
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Alvin C
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hestiansun wrote:
So, anyone else ever have the Cylon successfully outed (ie all humans believe it) by their second turn?

We had a 5 player game where both cylons were outed on the 2nd skill check. They both put cards in then the rest of us decided to fail the check instead. Every card (including the destiny deck) was a bad card.

We still lost and it was not a fun game.
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Matt D
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I didn't mean to imply that the game is bad, or even "broken". It was just a really unfortunate turn of events -- the odds of getting a card so early that lets one look at a loyalty card NOT of one's choosing and that randomly being the one cylon in the game are pretty slim.

I wonder if a simple variant like having the sleeper deck be 5 cards instead of 4, with one cylon in it, makes sense. That way there's always at least the possibility you could end up being a cyclon post-sleeper, so you slow play the first half of the game. But it doesn't guarantee that the humans are up against two cylons every time...
 
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Sebastian Roehrig
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I put in a cylon leader along with the normal cylon in four player games. works for me.
 
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Robert Stewart
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I played one four-player base-game (Baltar, Boomer, Roslin, Tigh in some order) where Baltar used his OPG to check Tigh on his first action, accused Tigh of being the Cylon, and both of them then spent the entire game in the Brig playing XOs.

As President Admiral Roslin (post-Sleeper), I also held all the Quorum cards in hand. I did let Boomer out almost immediately, but the game was still a complete cakewalk.

Of course, the Cylon player made an obvious tactical error in continuing to play human long after we'd made it clear that we were happy leaving two people in the Brig until we reached Kobol and had time to deal with them properly...
 
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K R X
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Never play this game with less than 5! It is a huge disservice to the magic of the game.
 
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Benjamin Maggi
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Tyndal wrote:
hestiansun wrote:
So, anyone else ever have the Cylon successfully outed (ie all humans believe it) by their second turn?

We had a 5 player game where both cylons were outed on the 2nd skill check. They both put cards in then the rest of us decided to fail the check instead. Every card (including the destiny deck) was a bad card.

We still lost and it was not a fun game.


That isn't right. If the group decides to dump a skill check, they should do so before cards are put in. If the group decides midway to do it, then the people who put cards in should be allowed to remove theirs. If I were in a group that did that, I would put my contributions in front of me and not in the pile until it was time to shuffle them and calculate.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Benjamin Maggi wrote:
That isn't right. If the group decides to dump a skill check, they should do so before cards are put in. If the group decides midway to do it

There is no group from the moment the first player puts in cards. Everyone makes their own decisions after initial discussion. Playing BSG by committee is the worst idea I have heard.

Benjamin Maggi wrote:
I would put my contributions in front of me and not in the pile until it was time to shuffle them and calculate.

That's a house-rule then.
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Mikhail Dektyarev
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Benjamin Maggi wrote:
That isn't right. If the group decides to dump a skill check, they should do so before cards are put in. If the group decides midway to do it, then the people who put cards in should be allowed to remove theirs. If I were in a group that did that, I would put my contributions in front of me and not in the pile until it was time to shuffle them and calculate.


I think it's a very bad idea. If you play to skillcheck before me, I want to see how many cards you played before decide what I'll play.
May be, as in Tyndal's situtation, I think that you are a cylon who spiked skillcheck, and want to avoid suspicions on myself. Or may be I am a cylon, and want you to both waste cards and fail skillcheck.
 
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Benjamin Maggi
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Wouldn't an obvious strategy to determine who a cylon is then be to wait until the first person puts in cards, no body put in any others, and see what comes up. Even with the Destiny deck, it might be obvious?
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Benjamin Maggi wrote:
Wouldn't an obvious strategy to determine who a cylon is then be to wait until the first person puts in cards, no body put in any others, and see what comes up. Even with the Destiny deck, it might be obvious?

Yes, that's the way the game works. That's a way to catch unsuspecting or trusting cylons.

But how many times can you do that. There's always something on the line in the skill check, or you would've suggested tanking it in the first place. (Or selected the OR alternative.)
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Mikhail Dektyarev
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Benjamin Maggi wrote:
Wouldn't an obvious strategy to determine who a cylon is then be to wait until the first person puts in cards, no body put in any others, and see what comes up. Even with the Destiny deck, it might be obvious?


So you fail a skillcheck to may be caught up a cylon. Looks like a pretty cylon move
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Geoff C
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It is very common to decide as a group whether to go for it or sluff skillchecks...usually this discussion happens before cards are played.
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Robert Stewart
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Talonz wrote:
It is very common to decide as a group whether to go for it or sluff skillchecks...usually this discussion happens before cards are played.


It's also common (or at least not unusual) to try to decide who will actually play in - but either decision is subject to change once someone's played in.

Also, good players will change their actual contribution based on what people ahead of them have done - using it to trap a Cylon spiking is just an extension of that.

Of course, it's pretty risky - if the cards turn out to be positive, but not enough so to pass (or the negative cards are in the wrong colours for that player) then you've just made yourself look like a Cylon; and even if you catch a Cylon out like this, if they're playing in first, then their turn is about to happen - so they get first chance to react to their exposure...
 
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Johannes Blank
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One of my favorite games of BSG was with 4 players, after we played a 5 players game and one player left. We had one Cylon leader (and obviously one Cylon). I don't remember whether the humans won that game or the game before, but it was such a blast. We also had the early Cylon reveal (even easier when one is a Cylon leader) and I think it slightly bothered the Cylon player, but it was still an incredibly fun game and humans/cylons still tried figuring out the cylon leader (Pegasus variant, not the later version)
 
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