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Fury of Dracula (third/fourth edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Trading -- must SOMETHING be traded? rss

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Poppa Necktie
United States
Oklahoma
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Our group had a discussion (not really a disagreement) about this--there seems to be an at least plausible interpretation of the rules that when a trade action is executed that something must be traded. This came about when a hunter executed a trade with another hunter and was able to talk in private and discuss strategy, then said "never mind we don't want to trade." Effectively using the trade action as a "secret meeting" action, which is an option that is conspicuously absent from the rule book. In this case, it was Van Helsing initiating this from afar which exaggerated the uncomfortable feeling the Dracula player had about this. Dracula thought "if you're going to discuss strategy under the guise of a trade a trade of some sort has to happen."

I don't think the rule book implies that this type of execution of a trade is forbidden, but there was a wordsmith at our table who said that a very specific reading of one of the rules dealing with trade (sorry, I don't remember exactly which section he referenced and how he interpreted it) could imply that the players couldn't choose not to trade if this action was executed.

Anything official on this that we missed? Or anything unofficial that explains how this should work?
 
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Scott Forster
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Tucson
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The RRG says:

"The two hunters can show each
other their item cards and ticket tokens and give any of those
cards and tokens to each other."

"ยป When a hunter performs a trade action, he and the other
hunter who is part of that trade action can trade cards in
secret and communicate in private"

It just says they can trade, not that they must trade. Being able to do something does not mean you must do something.

other instances of "can" as "may" in the RRG:

"A hunter can forfeit his action by passing"
"If a game effect moves a hunter to a location that is a hideout
or lair, Dracula can ambush that hunter."
"Item cards that have a red-colored banner can be used during
combat."

interestingly, the Hideout rules section restates the Ambush rule quoted above, using "may."
"Dracula reveals the
location card in that hideout and may ambush the hunter."

In the beginning of the RRG, they specifically call out the fact that "may" does not mean "must," but there are only 15 instances of "may" in the RRG (including the disclaimer) and 75 instances of "can." Since the Hideout-Ambush rule interchangeably uses "can" and "may," I think we can assume that "can" is also not "must" (else hunters must always pass their turns).
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Krawhitham B
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Napier
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Completely fair move. It is costing an action to do.
 
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Randal Divinski
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skotothalamos wrote:
In the beginning of the RRG, they specifically call out the fact that "may" does not mean "must," but there are only 15 instances of "may" in the RRG (including the disclaimer) and 75 instances of "can." Since the Hideout-Ambush rule interchangeably uses "can" and "may," I think we can assume that "can" is also not "must" (else hunters must always pass their turns).

I completely agree that the Trade action can/may be used for discussion only. However, I would in general be careful about reaching conclusions based on an assumption that the rulebook uses terms consistently.
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thespaceinvader -
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Rotting wrote:
Our group had a discussion (not really a disagreement) about this--there seems to be an at least plausible interpretation of the rules that when a trade action is executed that something must be traded. This came about when a hunter executed a trade with another hunter and was able to talk in private and discuss strategy, then said "never mind we don't want to trade." Effectively using the trade action as a "secret meeting" action, which is an option that is conspicuously absent from the rule book. In this case, it was Van Helsing initiating this from afar which exaggerated the uncomfortable feeling the Dracula player had about this. Dracula thought "if you're going to discuss strategy under the guise of a trade a trade of some sort has to happen."

I don't think the rule book implies that this type of execution of a trade is forbidden, but there was a wordsmith at our table who said that a very specific reading of one of the rules dealing with trade (sorry, I don't remember exactly which section he referenced and how he interpreted it) could imply that the players couldn't choose not to trade if this action was executed.

Anything official on this that we missed? Or anything unofficial that explains how this should work?


Nothing says they must. And even if they did, Dracula has no way of knowing whether they did unless the number of cards each player has changed. I mean, if they go out to trade and swap one encounter card each for one from the other player's hand, Dracula has no way to tell whether the trade occurred or not. Trading can absolutely be a way for Hunters to talk outside Dracula's hearing.
 
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Poppa Necktie
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Oklahoma
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Got it. Thanks guys. I think that there was also some talk about the hunters being able to say "Well, that doesn't conclude my turn since we didn't actually trade" then taking another action. We didn't play this way, but that was some of the discussion about why the trade may have to include an exchange so that the player can't back out of it and take another action. But, I think it goes without saying that if two hunters confer in secret, trade or not, that is their turn. The comments here just reinforce what we believed and how we played. Just a certain reading that one of us had that threw us into the discussion. Not a big deal nonetheless because we all came to the correct conclusion anyhow.

Thanks again, fellas.
 
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