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Viticulture Essential Edition» Forums » General

Subject: Winning by focusing purely on VP actions... rss

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Mick Whyte
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The VP rush Victory is most annoying at 3 player count beacause you can't block them from 'flipping' fields for VP as easily and it's frustrating.

I started a thread about this a while back and what I realised and you will to going back over the game well, is that the big score he got would have been off of Visitors really. The Rush strategy is only works well with lucky card draws. It doesn't work every time, I've seen that

And as someone pointed out to me in my thread don't play with someone who wants to play that way. I literally never play this game with my friend who play that way and I tell him so. "I'll play with you when you flow with the strategy of the game, instead of just opportunistically playing the same strategy over and over again"
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MC Crispy
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cdlftw wrote:
tilde72 wrote:
Suggestion: maybe OP can change the title on this thread to something less inflammatory now that it's gotten the attention that was intended?

Or does OP still want to know if the game is broken?

If not, I think the title is misleading for future readers that doesn't take the time to read it all (maybe just the heading) and they might think that something is wrong with the game. IMO it's not.

I've changed the title, however personally, I think a game where a player can runaway with the game without using the core gameplay mechanics is inherently broken.
Who defines the "core mechanics" of the game. You? Or the Designer?
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Phil
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yooden wrote:
It does benefit you: It will stop the other player from winning.

This times 1000. Every non-solo game out there is a game of changing how you play every turn so that the other players don't win, and to try and win yourself.

Sometimes you have to take a non-optimal move to block someone else or deny them certain benefits.

Viticulture, for me, is all about the cards and cycling through them often enough to get the ones that gel with the strategy that I'm going for in that particular game. Maybe you'll get the visitors that grant VP, maybe you won't.
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Phil
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Does this strategy (VP Actions and cards only, to the detriment of filling orders) work every time? If not, then the game is not broken.

If you employ this strategy, what about the other players that also go for this strategy at the same time? Are there enough VP visitors and actions to give you the win? I suspect not.

In the games that we've played, the winner has always filled at least one order, but some of the players that didn't were really close.
 
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Mick Whyte
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So just played Tuacany and I'll say that they are 100% different games and there are many more ways to go for the VP rush Victory in the expansion
 
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Christopher Suwita
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IMHO, can you win by focusing only for VP actions in VEE? (I only have base game, don't like expansion for any games)

No, at least not as a consistent strategy
As stated above, if your opponent(s) is/are experienced player(s), he/she/they will block you or worse, make faster engine by planting-harvesting small value grapes and filling small value orders. And "no-win(e) strategy" as I named it, heavily relies on "combo" situations including cards, bonus spots, etc, so I think you will not win consistently with such strategy.

Yes, in a limited way
Again, as stated above, this is a racing game, not your usual x-turn worker placement game. So you have to do anything that gives you advantage. Basically, you avoid tight competition for particular spots. And you have to consider your starting line, too.

If your opponents play big-vine strategy, snatch VPs from uncontested spots to end the match early.
If your opponents play "no-win(e) strategy", make your engine smaller instead aiming for a big-turn play so you stand toe-to-toe with such opponents.
While your opponents fight each other for engine-building/small VPs, you just take the other way. They will slow one-another because they compete in the same spot.

If you get good vines and good Summer cards that enable you plant/build efficiently, than by all means prioritize making engine, while still considering your opponents' strategy.
If you get "trade" cards (Broker, Horticulturist, Wine Critic, etc), maybe you can start the game playing hybrid strategy, try to plant normally, while having plan B to retreat to, namely "no-win(e) strategy".

Last time I played, I won in 5 years. All of my opponents are good worker-placement players, while I consider myself as a tactical and all-rounder player. Maybe that's why I could think such way. I wrote the full turns there
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1830591/there-anyway-beat-b...
 
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James Ataei
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Nice strategy in that game write up, congrats!

Poirotcc wrote:
....(I only have base game, don't like expansion for any games)....

That's an interesting position, but maybe you might listen to this guy? thumbsup

via Imgflip Meme Generator

 
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Mick Whyte
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Poirotcc wrote:

Last time I played, I won in 5 years. All of my opponents are good worker-placement players, while I consider myself as a tactical and all-rounder player. Maybe that's why I could think such way. I wrote the full turns there
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1830591/there-anyway-beat-b...

I read through your notes and you accidentally cheated, you never opened up your cellar and although you used the Zymologist to make two level 4's they won't age as you don't have a cellar (this is covered int the rule book). Thus you can't have filled the order or played the Governess this makes -5VPs.

Games are faster on 5-6 player and its much easier to win off Vistor cards because of all the bonus cards. So we are still searching for the 5 round win
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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Mick_whyte wrote:
I read through your notes and you accidentally cheated, you never opened up your cellar and although you used the Zymologist to make two level 4's they won't age as you don't have a cellar (this is covered int the rule book). Thus you can't have filled the order or played the Governess this makes -5VPs.

I'm not sure where the notes referenced are (glanced through the thread & might have missed them).

Anyway, the quoted statement is partly true. BUT, once the Zymologist allowed the level 4 wines, they would age up to 6, then stall out. The Zymologist explanation in the rule book gives specific a example & I'm pretty sure I've seen Jamey post confirmation of that in past threads.
 
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