Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Roll for the Galaxy: Ambition» Forums » Variants

Subject: Nerfing Terraforming Unlimited rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Noble Knave
United States
Santa Barbara
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've found Terraforming Unlimited (6 Dev that gives 3 points per 4+ cost world to be extremely strong. It easily gets between 6 and 15 bonus points, depending on how hard you push it, and the 3x Reassugn is amazingly synergistic. I've hit 18 bonus points multiple times.

My solution is to modify the scoring bonus:
1 point for 4 cost settlements
2 points for 5 cost ones
3 points for 6+ cost ones

Thoughts?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Nerfing Terrafotming Unlimited
If you want feedback from the designer, you might put your question in a different form, not related to variants. Such as "Is Terraforming Unlimited overpowered?" The designers don't usually read variant posts.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruno Wolff
msg tools
Re: Nerfing Terrafotming Unlimited
Certainly this tile can be very good, but it can also be so-so. It doesn't help you get money back, so generally you have to do other stuff before you can really make good use of it. However there are a few starting powers it works really well with and those combos are hard to beat.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Latto
United States
Foxboro
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Nerfing Terrafotming Unlimited
thenobleknave wrote:
I've found Terraforming Unlimited (6 Dev that gives 3 points per 4+ cost world to be extremely strong. It easily gets between 6 and 15 bonus points, depending on how hard you push it, and the 3x Reassugn is amazingly synergistic. I've hit 18 bonus points multiple times.

My solution is to modify the scoring bonus:
1 point for 4 cost settlements
2 points for 5 cost ones
3 points for 6+ cost ones

Thoughts?

If you play this development, you want to develop and settle a lot of expensive things, so a long game favors you. So your opponents should be trying to end the game quickly. Developing this for 6 and 6 other things for 4 each is a total of 30 dice. Even if your opponents develop and settle things with an average size of 2, they only need 18 dice to end the game. So if you are using 30 dice while your opponents are only using 18, this sounds more like your opponents are playing badly than it sounds like this card is overpowered.
6 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Noble Knave
United States
Santa Barbara
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Nerfing Terrafotming Unlimited
andylatto wrote:
thenobleknave wrote:
I've found Terraforming Unlimited (6 Dev that gives 3 points per 4+ cost world to be extremely strong. It easily gets between 6 and 15 bonus points, depending on how hard you push it, and the 3x Reassugn is amazingly synergistic. I've hit 18 bonus points multiple times.

My solution is to modify the scoring bonus:
1 point for 4 cost settlements
2 points for 5 cost ones
3 points for 6+ cost ones

Thoughts?

If you play this development, you want to develop and settle a lot of expensive things, so a long game favors you. So your opponents should be trying to end the game quickly. Developing this for 6 and 6 other things for 4 each is a total of 30 dice. Even if your opponents develop and settle things with an average size of 2, they only need 18 dice to end the game. So if you are using 30 dice while your opponents are only using 18, this sounds more like your opponents are playing badly than it sounds like this card is overpowered.


So 12 extra dice could go to some Developments or Produce/Consume. No way that's more efficient than 7 points for every 4 Settlers (maybe a Dev spam if you combo really well). Also, if you factor in the Explorer die it does hurt the cost efficiency of cheap worlds more.

Most 4+ Cost worlds give a rebate of 1-3 dollars and either a die in cup or a windfall (which can be traded for 5 or 6 dollars if you can leach a ship). Without any rebate or discount, it's still an effective cost of about 3 dice per tile and you get 7-9 points per. That's pretty brutally efficient and gets even better if you can augment your engine. With the 3x Reassign and the large number of wilds on green and yellow dice, you can reliably get out 1 or 2 big worlds a turn without giving up much tempo. An opponent cranking 2 cost worlds is going to struggle to keep up.

I'd be curious to hear the designers' thoughts on it, I may put up a thread in General when I'm not on my phone.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Loyko
Russia
Moscow
flag msg tools
Avatar
Re: Nerfing Terrafotming Unlimited
I've bought this tech 2 times and it broght me 18 and 21 points... so I definitely find it overpowered.
And I like your idea very much as it would bring those results to 12 points... which is also very good for 6+ techs but not so unbalanced.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Orion Anderson
United States
Chicago
IL
flag msg tools
Re: Nerfing Terrafotming Unlimited
Do you also nerf that tech from the base set that gives you a 2-dierefund when building techs, and +1/3 ofthe total cost of all techs as additional VP?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Noble Knave
United States
Santa Barbara
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Nerfing Terrafotming Unlimited
OrionJA wrote:
Do you also nerf that tech from the base set that gives you a 2-dierefund when building techs, and +1/3 ofthe total cost of all techs as additional VP?


No, I find that one solid but not OP. Without support, it often struggles to have enough dice. It does combo nicely though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Latto
United States
Foxboro
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Nerfing Terrafotming Unlimited
thenobleknave wrote:
andylatto wrote:
thenobleknave wrote:
I've found Terraforming Unlimited (6 Dev that gives 3 points per 4+ cost world to be extremely strong. It easily gets between 6 and 15 bonus points, depending on how hard you push it, and the 3x Reassugn is amazingly synergistic. I've hit 18 bonus points multiple times.

My solution is to modify the scoring bonus:
1 point for 4 cost settlements
2 points for 5 cost ones
3 points for 6+ cost ones

Thoughts?

If you play this development, you want to develop and settle a lot of expensive things, so a long game favors you. So your opponents should be trying to end the game quickly. Developing this for 6 and 6 other things for 4 each is a total of 30 dice. Even if your opponents develop and settle things with an average size of 2, they only need 18 dice to end the game. So if you are using 30 dice while your opponents are only using 18, this sounds more like your opponents are playing badly than it sounds like this card is overpowered.


So 12 extra dice could go to some Developments or Produce/Consume. No way that's more efficient than 7 points for every 4 Settlers (maybe a Dev spam if you combo really well). Also, if you factor in the Explorer die it does hurt the cost efficiency of cheap worlds more.

You miss my point. I'm not saying that the other players should use 18 dice to build 9 small tiles, and then do other things with the remaining 12 tiles. I'm saying the other players should use 18 dice to build 9 small tiles, and then the game will be over. Since you won't have 30 dice to use while your opponents use 12 dice, you won't get to execute your plan of Terraforming Unlimited and 6 other big developments, because the game will be over before that happens.

Yes, in a very long game Terraforming Unlimited played early will do well. But if you start building Terraforming Unlimited early, your opponents should try to make the game end quickly, before Terraforming Unlimited can reach its full usefulness. If your opponents aren't doing this, they aren't playing well, and you can't make a good judgement of how powerful TU is unless you've played it against good players.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Noble Knave
United States
Santa Barbara
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andylatto wrote:
You miss my point. I'm not saying that the other players should use 18 dice to build 9 small tiles, and then do other things with the remaining 12 tiles. I'm saying the other players should use 18 dice to build 9 small tiles, and then the game will be over. Since you won't have 30 dice to use while your opponents use 12 dice, you won't get to execute your plan of Terraforming Unlimited and 6 other big developments, because the game will be over before that happens.

Yes, in a very long game Terraforming Unlimited played early will do well. But if you start building Terraforming Unlimited early, your opponents should try to make the game end quickly, before Terraforming Unlimited can reach its full usefulness. If your opponents aren't doing this, they aren't playing well, and you can't make a good judgement of how powerful TU is unless you've played it against good players.


Assuming consistent drawing of 1 costs, you could churn out 9 tiles for 18 dice and 9 points and end with a very low score. Meanwhile, the TU player gets that plus two 4-Costs for 17 dice and ends with 21 points.

Of course this is reductionist, but a rush is only worthwhile if rushing lets you end with more than your opponent.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.