Peter
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Here is the situation during an NP French March (a real game situation):

New Jersey has 4 French Regulars, 2 Continentals, 1 Patriot Fort and no other forces (clearly under Rebellion control).

New York City (NYC) has 3 Tories, a British fort, and two Patriot militias. It is under British control, but will switch control if the rebels can add 3 pieces.

Philadelphia (Philly) has a British Regular, a Tory, and a Patriot militia. It is also under British control, but will switch control if the rebels can add 2 pieces.

Which of the following ways of executing the March is correct for the NP French:

(1) Choose NYC as the first destination since it has four British pieces (vs Philly which has 2), and move as many French Regulars as possible (4), plus drag along two Continentals, leaving the fort to hold Patriot control in New Jersey.

This obeys the rules and moves the most units allowed in that first move. NOTE: as far as I can tell, the French march does not say move the minimum amount to gain control, so it appears the French March is not like the British March. It keeps the French regulars as massed as possible and brings along maximum Continental friends.

Or

(2) Choose NYC first, but move 3 French (securing control of NYC). Then do not move any to Philly because control can not be achieved moving the remaining French regular even if a Continental is also moved.

This also obeys the rules, but moves the minimum French required.

(3) Choose NYC first, but move 2 French and drag 1 Continental (securing control of NYC). Choose Philly next, moving 2 French (securing control of Philly).

This also obeys the rules, but moves the minimum French required while dragging along a Continental to NYC. Doing the March in this way allows two cities to switch support. This is the option which maximizes the number of cities which switch control.

If possible please point out any errors in my reasoning, or help me understand why the choices is the right choice.

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Let's see if I can make a fool of myself

"While executing the bullets below, lose no Rebellion Control" (8.6.5) and "When executing the bullets below, do not move any pieces needed for British Control of the origin space" (8.4.3) look equivalent to me.

Back to your example: I'd say that, per 8.6.5, you move those 4 French Regulars and the 2 Continentals because leaving behind the Patriot Fort is enough to keep Control of New Jersey. Where they go is where we disagree

Quote:
March with as many French Regulars and Continentals as possible to add Rebellion Control, first in Cities, then Colonies, within that first to spaces with British pieces.


Both New York City and Philadelphia are Cities with British pieces in your example, so I'd pick one randomly (I like the Random Space table, but YMMV).

Of course I could be awfully wrong
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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d2necro wrote:
Here is the situation during an NP French March (a real game situation):

New Jersey has 4 French Regulars, 2 Continentals, 1 Patriot Fort and no other forces (clearly under Rebellion control).

New York City (NYC) has 3 Tories, a British fort, and two Patriot militias. It is under British control, but will switch control if the rebels can add 3 pieces.

Philadelphia (Philly) has a British Regular, a Tory, and a Patriot militia. It is also under British control, but will switch control if the rebels can add 2 pieces.

Which of the following ways of executing the March is correct for the NP French:

(1) Choose NYC as the first destination since it has four British pieces (vs Philly which has 2), and move as many French Regulars as possible (4), plus drag along two Continentals, leaving the fort to hold Patriot control in New Jersey.

This obeys the rules and moves the most units allowed in that first move.

Correct, as long as the army in NJ is the only French force in the vicinity.

If OTOH there was a single French Regular able to March from MD or PN without giving up Rebellion Control there, the "as many French Regulars and Continentals as possible" would require it too to March if possible - but it isn't strong enough to take Philly by itself, so it would need reinforcements from the NJ army. This is the reason why FrenchBot doesn't have any explicit instruction to not split its forces - sometimes it has to do so in order to maximize the number of French Regulars and Continentals it can March.

(If OTOH there are 2 or more French Regulars that are able to March from MD and/or PN, they could take Philly by themselves so wouldn't need help from NJ.)

Quote:
NOTE: as far as I can tell, the French march does not say move the minimum amount to gain control, so it appears the French March is not like the British March. It keeps the French regulars as massed as possible and brings along maximum Continental friends.

Correct. FrenchBot only really wants to kill British pieces; while it won't give up Rebellion Control (and thus risk having the British Reward Loyalty there) the real reason it takes Control of the destinations is to ensure that the Rebels will outnumber any Royalists in the destination space.

BritBot OTOH needs both to prepare to Reward Loyalty and to inhibit Patriot Rabble-Rousing, Persuasion and Committees of Correspondance to the greatest extent possible, so it is forced to maximize Control.

Quote:
(2) Choose NYC first, but move 3 French (securing control of NYC). Then do not move any to Philly because control can not be achieved moving the remaining French regular even if a Continental is also moved.

This also obeys the rules, but moves the minimum French required.

This explicitly disobeys the "March with as many French Regulars and Continentals as possible" priority, so no.

Quote:
(3) Choose NYC first, but move 2 French and drag 1 Continental (securing control of NYC). Choose Philly next, moving 2 French (securing control of Philly).

This also obeys the rules, but moves the minimum French required while dragging along a Continental to NYC. Doing the March in this way allows two cities to switch support. This is the option which maximizes the number of cities which switch control.

Again it doesn't March with as many French Regulars and Continentals as possible, since it leaves one Continental behind in NY.

Regards,
Oerjan
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Peter
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Thank you Orejan -- that is a great explanation and I'm really glad you posed the "OTOH" case to us. If I may pose one more specific case, and see if I can provide the reasoning why it isn't the right answer:

(4) Choose NYC as first destination, move 2 French, 1 Continental (assume control). Choose Philly second, move 2 French, 1 Continental (assume control).

Moves the maximum French Regular and Continentals while retaining control of NJ. Controls two new cities. However, it is not preferred above (1) because FrenchBot will prefer to outnumber the British by as many as possible in NYC over splitting its forces between two cities, and French is not interested in maximizing control.

Does that sound right?
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Oerjan wrote:
d2necro wrote:
Here is the situation during an NP French March (a real game situation):

New Jersey has 4 French Regulars, 2 Continentals, 1 Patriot Fort and no other forces (clearly under Rebellion control).

New York City (NYC) has 3 Tories, a British fort, and two Patriot militias. It is under British control, but will switch control if the rebels can add 3 pieces.

Philadelphia (Philly) has a British Regular, a Tory, and a Patriot militia. It is also under British control, but will switch control if the rebels can add 2 pieces.

Which of the following ways of executing the March is correct for the NP French:

(1) Choose NYC as the first destination since it has four British pieces (vs Philly which has 2), and move as many French Regulars as possible (4), plus drag along two Continentals, leaving the fort to hold Patriot control in New Jersey.

This obeys the rules and moves the most units allowed in that first move.

Correct, as long as the army in NJ is the only French force in the vicinity


I must be dense... which rule makes the French Bot pick New York City over Philadelphia in OP's example?
 
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Vez A
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The relevant bullet says:

"Within that restriction, March with as many French Regulars and Continentals as possible to add Rebellion Control, first in Cities, then Colonies, within that first to spaces with British pieces."

I guess EV's question boils down to what the scope of the italized bit is. Does act as a tie breaker over, both, marches into cities as well as colonies, or only the latter?

 
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In OP's example both Cities have British pieces and Control can be changed, so I wonder if I missed a rule which makes the French Bot pick one over the other.
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Doh! I read that carelessly. I was thinking it says where the MOST British pieces.
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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masil wrote:
The relevant bullet says:

"Within that restriction, March with as many French Regulars and Continentals as possible to add Rebellion Control, first in Cities, then Colonies, within that first to spaces with British pieces."

I guess EV's question boils down to what the scope of the italized bit is. Does act as a tie breaker over, both, marches into cities as well as colonies, or only the latter?


Good catch - that's a missing word in the rulebook text! The flowchart says "...with most British pieces", which is correct (and also leaves out "then Colonies", making it clear that the "most British pieces" bit does indeed refer directly to the "first Cities" part too).

/Oerjan
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