Ernie Blofeld
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After several solo games a pattern emerged where the indians would build up villages in the reserves and then swarm into the colonies. So finally, with considerable game effort, I sent an army into a reserve but was frustrated how easily the indians could keep war parties underground.

Then I finally realized it doesn't matter if there are underground units. Choose the battle command and attack the villages. If the indian wants to defend he has to reveal his war parties or the villages take the casualties while his warriors hide.

I have seen the light!

Underground units do not defend their bases (villages/forts) against cubes automatically like in the previous COIN games. It is a subtle but important difference.

Now it makes a lot more sense to send continentals into reserves to keep the indians in check. Even if villages/warriors survive they are tied down defending rather than launching devastating raids. But don't forget those continentals will probably have to be supplied in winter...

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Harold Buchanan
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Noiseman wrote:

After several solo games a pattern emerged where the indians would build up villages in the reserves and then swarm into the colonies. So finally, with considerable game effort, I sent an army into a reserve but was frustrated how easily the indians could keep war parties underground.

Then I finally realized it doesn't matter if there are underground units. Choose the battle command and attack the villages. If the indian wants to defend he has to reveal his war parties or the villages take the casualties while his warriors hide.

I have seen the light!

Underground units do not defend their bases (villages/forts) against cubes automatically like in the previous COIN games. It is a subtle but important difference.

Now it makes a lot more sense to send continentals into reserves to keep the indians in check. Even if villages/warriors survive they are tied down defending rather than launching devastating raids. But don't forget those continentals will probably have to be supplied in winter...



You've got it Ernie!

It goes without saying that Militia can attack underground War Parties.
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Dale Buonocore
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Forgive my apparent mental density here (perhaps I'm not adequately caffeinated yet?), but: "It goes without saying that Militia can attack underground War Parties"?

That statement confuses me -- I clearly must be somehow misunderstanding something here. I thought only active War Parties could be directly attacked? Now I'm wondering if that understanding is mistaken -- some exception I missed, perhaps?

Could someone provide clarification, please? Thanks.
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Oerjan Ariander
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Militia using the Partisans Special Activity remove "Royalist units". Since it doesn't say that those Royalist units must be Active, they can be Underground.

Regards,
Oerjan
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Dale Buonocore
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Thank you very much for that quick clarification. I figured there was some simple explanation that was escaping me.

Absolutely dazzling game, by the way. I'm presently starting into the final campaign of the "British Return to New York" scenario, playing the Patriots and French against the Non-player British and Indians. Generally playing one campaign per session, very slowly, savoring each step and learning as I go -- and it's falling into place quite nicely, indeed. And my enjoyment of it grows more and more with each session...!

By the way -- I'm assuming that as long as you survive into the final round, the result is at worst a draw ("The struggle continues!"), even if subtracting the highest Non-player victory margin from the lowest player victory margin results in a "0" or a negative number (the one sentence there in 8.8 says "5 or less," but the part immediately following says "1 to 5". Is that correct?

And the active support provided by yourself and Mr. Buchanan here on BGG is exemplary and much appreciated -- many thanks and kudos to you both!
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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Elad wrote:
By the way -- I'm assuming that as long as you survive into the final round, the result is at worst a draw ("The struggle continues!"), even if subtracting the highest Non-player victory margin from the lowest player victory margin results in a "0" or a negative number (the one sentence there in 8.8 says "5 or less," but the part immediately following says "1 to 5". Is that correct?

No, if you as the solo player don't have the highest Victory Margin after the final Winter Quarters, you lose outright. See the sections of 8.8 immediately before and after the blue "One-Player Difficulty Option" box.

The part you refer to only applies if you have a higher Victory Margin than all NP Factions; if you have beaten the best NP by 1-5 points you get a stalemate, with 6+ you win decisively. The hardest NP to beat is usually your own ally... if your Victory Margin is highest but your ally's is too close to yours, you have essentially won the Rebellion only to get drawn into a new conflict with your erstwhile ally.

Regards,
Oerjan
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Dale Buonocore
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Thanks for that additional clarification, which does make better sense to me.

So I'll need to get both my Patriot and French forces rolling during this final campaign with regard to both their shared victory condition (Opposition over Support) and their unique ones (Forts > Villages, and CBC > CRC) to at least keep the struggle alive. Better go rally those troops...!

Thanks again!
 
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Doug Robelen
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I have a follow up question on this subject. I have been trying to wrap my mind around Common Cause, and when its use in a turn is decidedly more beneficial than Skirmish or Naval Pressure (in several games, I have yet to use CC). Since the British "control" Indian forces in a province when launching an attack in that province, it seems that the only time you would use Common Cause would be in situations where you're looking for one last "cube" to add a die to your roll (e.g. a province w/ 7 British regulars and 2 war parties). And of course the down side is that, when using CC, Indian casualties count toward CBC.

CC's benefit when marching seems limited because you have to activate any war parties you bring with you, so you lose the benefit of having an underground war party in future combat (until you have the opportunity to send that war party underground again).

Am I missing something that greater minds have figured out?

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Michael Draper
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Scooter65 wrote:
I have a follow up question on this subject. I have been trying to wrap my mind around Common Cause, and when its use in a turn is decidedly more beneficial than Skirmish or Naval Pressure (in several games, I have yet to use CC). Since the British "control" Indian forces in a province when launching an attack in that province, it seems that the only time you would use Common Cause would be in situations where you're looking for one last "cube" to add a die to your roll (e.g. a province w/ 7 British regulars and 2 war parties). And of course the down side is that, when using CC, Indian casualties count toward CBC.

CC's benefit when marching seems limited because you have to activate any war parties you bring with you, so you lose the benefit of having an underground war party in future combat (until you have the opportunity to send that war party underground again).

Am I missing something that greater minds have figured out?



CC a War Party along with you to then Scout on the next Indian activation. If you need to convince the Indians, just promise them a sweet payout on their next Trade action. You don't HAVE to keep your promise (it's not like the white man is known for that).

If you and the Indians are off cycle in your activationa, then this lets both factions move on 2 cards in a row. If you're on cycle, then twice in one card.

Alternatively, if you're one cube shy of activating all militia in a space, CCing a War Party along with you can make that happen. A Scout would be the same, but then you rely on the Indian doing that for you.
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Scott D
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mld0806 wrote:
CC a War Party along with you to then Scout on the next Indian activation. If you need to convince the Indians, just promise them a sweet payout on their next Trade action. You don't HAVE to keep your promise (it's not like the white man is known for that).


This is indeed a possibility...once. If I were your Indian ally and you burned me on the Trade later, you can forget about my help for a while until you prove your trustworthiness. That's part of the great fun of the COIN games: having to cooperate to achieve your goals but also having to be on the lookout for opportunities to work at cross-purposes.
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Michael Draper
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Scottland wrote:
mld0806 wrote:
CC a War Party along with you to then Scout on the next Indian activation. If you need to convince the Indians, just promise them a sweet payout on their next Trade action. You don't HAVE to keep your promise (it's not like the white man is known for that).


This is indeed a possibility...once. If I were your Indian ally and you burned me on the Trade later, you can forget about my help for a while until you prove your trustworthiness. That's part of the great fun of the COIN games: having to cooperate to achieve your goals but also having to be on the lookout for opportunities to work at cross-purposes.


Oh, absolutely agree. Keeping the promise is the move most the time, but a useful skill is learning when to do things like this in COIN games when and where it's inconvenient or more hurtful to their own cause for the victim...er...your ally to gain retribution. Of course, this also slides into the realm of metagaming. Don't try moves like that with someone who's going to piss in the kiddie pool and make it impossible for either of you to win out of spite.
 
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Scott D
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mld0806 wrote:
Scottland wrote:
mld0806 wrote:
CC a War Party along with you to then Scout on the next Indian activation. If you need to convince the Indians, just promise them a sweet payout on their next Trade action. You don't HAVE to keep your promise (it's not like the white man is known for that).


This is indeed a possibility...once. If I were your Indian ally and you burned me on the Trade later, you can forget about my help for a while until you prove your trustworthiness. That's part of the great fun of the COIN games: having to cooperate to achieve your goals but also having to be on the lookout for opportunities to work at cross-purposes.


Oh, absolutely agree. Keeping the promise is the move most the time, but a useful skill is learning when to do things like this in COIN games when and where it's inconvenient or more hurtful to their own cause for the victim...er...your ally to gain retribution. Of course, this also slides into the realm of metagaming. Don't try moves like that with someone who's going to piss in the kiddie pool and make it impossible for either of you to win out of spite.


Yes, backstabbing an ally might cause someone to keep you from winning out of spite...once. Then I would be sure to "forget" to send that person the invitation to play next time.
 
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Michael Draper
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I can only picture you as Danny Vermin from Johnny Dangerously at the gaming table. Interesting mental image.
 
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Benji
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Scottland wrote:

Yes, backstabbing an ally might cause someone to keep you from winning out of spite...once. Then I would be sure to "forget" to send that person the invitation to play next time.


Huh??? Why?? There is ONE winner in the game. There are no "teams", only mutual interests. Backstabbing is part of every COIN game and completely in its spirit.
 
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Scott D
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mld0806 wrote:
I can only picture you as Danny Vermin from Johnny Dangerously at the gaming table. Interesting mental image.


Had to Google that one. But I don't do that all of the time (hardly ever actually).

In all seriousness, though, I don't think anyone much likes playing games with the person who gets so offended by a small betrayal that s/he basically stops playing the game, instead focusing all efforts on keeping someone from winning out of spite. I'd put that person in the same category as the rules lawyer, the person on his/her phone the whole time, or the person who suddenly "has to leave" without warning in the middle of a game.
 
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Scott D
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Benji68 wrote:
Scottland wrote:

Yes, backstabbing an ally might cause someone to keep you from winning out of spite...once. Then I would be sure to "forget" to send that person the invitation to play next time.


Huh??? Why?? There is ONE winner in the game. There are no "teams", only mutual interests. Backstabbing is part of every COIN game and completely in its spirit.


I didn't mean I'd forget to invite the backstabber. I meant I'd forget to invite the person who got so pissed off about being backstabbed that they ruined the game by being spiteful and angry the rest of the time.
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Benji
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Scottland wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
Scottland wrote:

Yes, backstabbing an ally might cause someone to keep you from winning out of spite...once. Then I would be sure to "forget" to send that person the invitation to play next time.


Huh??? Why?? There is ONE winner in the game. There are no "teams", only mutual interests. Backstabbing is part of every COIN game and completely in its spirit.


I didn't mean I'd forget to invite the backstabber. I meant I'd forget to invite the person who got so pissed off about being backstabbed that they ruined the game by being spiteful and angry the rest of the time.


Aaaaaaaah, sorry .. read it too quickly
 
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