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Subject: Artillary move/fire rss

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Ed Ray
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(1) I know that when infantry or cavalry attack, if the attack is on a piece which is within the range of movement of the attacking piece, then the move (ending in an attack) is considered to be just one action. Does this rule apply to artillery as well? Meaning, can artillery move one space forward and fire-on/crush the enemy in that space as just one move? Or does it have to fire first and only then move forward.....
(2) Unrelated Prussian question: Once the Prussians enter, am I correct that the English get an extra move even if English decides to not move any Prussians on that turn? (to be even more specific, does the extra move require that some Prussians have entered the game, or just that they are eligible to enter the game?)
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Reinhard S.
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26halo26 wrote:
(1) I know that when infantry or cavalry attack, if the attack is on a piece which is within the range of movement of the attacking piece, then the move (ending in an attack) is considered to be just one action. Does this rule apply to artillery as well? Meaning, can artillery move one space forward and fire-on/crush the enemy in that space as just one move? Or does it have to fire first and only then move forward.....
(2) Unrelated Prussian question: Once the Prussians enter, am I correct that the English get an extra move even if English decides to not move any Prussians on that turn? (to be even more specific, does the extra move require that some Prussians have entered the game, or just that they are eligible to enter the game?)


#1: ARTY
No, the Attack with ARTY works differently! Attacking like INF or CAV would also make no sense: Note, that ART does NOT HAVE any COMBAT STRENGTH VALUE to compare with an opponent! So... NO, ARTY cannot move and crush an enemy piece in 1 space distance. With ARTY You can...
...spend 1 Action for a Movement of 1 Space, OR
...spend 1 Action to fire up to 3 Spaces

#2 PRUSSIAN ACTION
Once the Prussians enter, the Anglo-Alllied Player can have up to 4 Actions (2 for Wellington, 1 for Uxbridge, 1 for Bülow).
The Rules clearly state, that at least 1 Action (of those up to 4 actions) has to be spent for Anglo-Allied and 1 Action has to spend for Prussians.
So - with 4 actions - it would be possible to move:
3 RED & 1 BLACK, 2 RED & 2 BLACK, 1 RED & 3 BLACK. It is NOT POSSIBLE to move 4 RED or 4 BLACK !

(I think, there is one exemption from that rule - found somewhere in the forum: If the Anglo-Allied Player has lost Wellington (loose 2 actions) and Uxbridge (loose 1 action), then the one left "prussian" action can be used for any one Prussian OR Anglo-Allied Piece)

Hope I explained correctly.

Greetings, Reinhard
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Ed Ray
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Thanks very much!
 
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Ed Ray
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Question: in the scenario where uxbridge and wellington are gone, does a prussian peeve have to be on the board to allow red or black to move? In other words, what if all prussians are dead, or the only ones still alive are on the sidelines, on the flag? Can the English fight unset command of the prussians even if there are no prussians on the field?
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Reinhard S.
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26halo26 wrote:
Question: in the scenario where uxbridge and wellington are gone, does a prussian peeve have to be on the board to allow red or black to move? In other words, what if all prussians are dead, or the only ones still alive are on the sidelines, on the flag? Can the English fight unset command of the prussians even if there are no prussians on the field?


The Action Point for the Prussians is related directly to their Corps-Commander Von Bülow.

When the Prussians are activated, the extra Action Point is gained.
Bülow must not be present on the Board yet, but he must not be eliminated!
So the following conditions should apply:
Prussians not yet activated: No Extra Point
Prussians activated & Bülow not yet on Gameboard: +1 Action Point
Prussians activated & Bülow on Gaemboard: +1 Action Point
Prussians activated & Bülow dead: No Extra Point

Note, that this extra Point normally has to be used for a BLACK (Prussian) Piece. The above mentioned exemption (Move a RED Piece with the "Prussian" Action, when all other commanders are dead)I found in some Forum - I can not say were exactly. Note further, that in the Standard Game the Loss of Wellington / Napoleon means an automatic loss of the Game for that side.
 
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Ed Ray
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Reinhard Sabel wrote:
26halo26 wrote:
Question: in the scenario where uxbridge and wellington are gone, does a prussian piece have to be on the board to allow red or black to move? In other words, what if all prussians are dead, or the only ones still alive are on the sidelines, on the flag? Can the English fight unset command of the prussians even if there are no prussians on the field?


The Action Point for the Prussians is related directly to their Corps-Commander Von Bülow.

When the Prussians are activated, the extra Action Point is gained.
Bülow must not be present on the Board yet, but he must not be eliminated!
So the following conditions should apply:
Prussians not yet activated: No Extra Point
Prussians activated & Bülow not yet on Gameboard: +1 Action Point
Prussians activated & Bülow on Gaemboard: +1 Action Point
Prussians activated & Bülow dead: No Extra Point

Note, that this extra Point normally has to be used for a BLACK (Prussian) Piece. The above mentioned exemption (Move a RED Piece with the "Prussian" Action, when all other commanders are dead)I found in some Forum - I can not say were exactly. Note further, that in the Standard Game the Loss of Wellington / Napoleon means an automatic loss of the Game for that side.


I am not sure of this. A response by the game's designer in march2015 implies that the prussians actions stem from the presence of field marshall blucher, unseen, not from van bulow. In fact he wrote that the biggest consequence of losing von bulow is that you are losing a powerful piece.

I am hoping the game's designer can clarify this. There is no reference in the rules to van bulows loss being consequential, and the reference to field Marshall blucher commanding the troops wouldn't be necessary if command switched to the British commanders.

In case the games designer reads this, the questions are (1) does von bulows loss mean loss of an action (i think not)? (2) if wellington and uxbridge die after the prussians arrive, do some prussians need to be alive to allow the English side to move, or does the invisible blucher work as a commander even when all his compatriots are either dead or off the field?

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Reinhard S.
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26halo26 wrote:


I am not sure of this. A response by the game's designer in march2015 implies that the prussians actions stem from the presence of field marshall blucher, unseen, not from van bulow. In fact he wrote that the biggest consequence of losing von bulow is that you are losing a powerful piece.

I am hoping the game's designer can clarify this. There is no reference in the rules to van bulows loss being consequential, and the reference to field Marshall blucher commanding the troops wouldn't be necessary if command switched to the British commanders.

In case the games designer reads this, the questions are (1) does von bulows loss mean loss of an action (i think not)? (2) if wellington and uxbridge die after the prussians arrive, do some prussians need to be alive to allow the English side to move, or does the invisible blucher work as a commander even when all his compatriots are either dead or off the field?



Hallo,
I think the rules are rather clear about that.
Here - from the English Section of the Rules - Chapter 5: The Commanders:

"At the start of the game, there are two commanders available for the Players on the board.
Marshal Ney for the French Player and Lord Uxbridge for the Allied Player. After the 12th game turn, when the the Prussians arrive, the Allied Player will be reinforced by Feldmarschall von Bülow.
...
What makes the commanders so important is that they ware worth ONE ACTION during the game. If you loose your commander during the game, you will lose one Action in your following turns. So instead of 3 Actions every turn, you will now only be able to perform 2 Actions!
Although strong pieces, using them recklessly could have serious consequences."


So, I Play, that loosing Von Bülow means loosing a commander means loosing 1 Action Point! Of course the sentence "So instead of 3 Actions..." could have been adjusted to include the Allied Player to have up to 4 Actions per turn and thus - by loosing one commander - would be reduced to 3 Actions... , but I would not critizise that...

Your last question:
I think this is correct:
Once the Prussians enter the game, the Allied Player gains the +1 Action.
This is true even, when von Bülow is not yet on the board.
The Allied Player looses this +1 Acvtion, when von Bülow is dead.
The Allied Player does not loose the +1 Action, if Bülow had to retreat from the board, but is not dead (which can happen fighting another Str. 5 unit and rolling "BLUE +").




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Jason St.Just
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Reinhard Sabel wrote:


The Action Point for the Prussians is related directly to their Corps-Commander Von Bülow.

When the Prussians are activated, the extra Action Point is gained.
Bülow must not be present on the Board yet, but he must not be eliminated!
So the following conditions should apply:
Prussians not yet activated: No Extra Point
Prussians activated & Bülow not yet on Gameboard: +1 Action Point
Prussians activated & Bülow on Gameboard: +1 Action Point
Prussians activated & Bülow dead: No Extra Point


Reinhard is completely correct here above.
If Von Bulow dies on the field of battle, the Prussian troops are leaderless and the Allies lose 1 action BUT...


26halo26 wrote:

I am not sure of this. A response by the game's designer in march2015 implies that the prussians actions stem from the presence of field marshall blucher, unseen, not from van bulow. In fact he wrote that the biggest consequence of losing von bulow is that you are losing a powerful piece.

In case the games designer reads this, the questions are (1) does von bulows loss mean loss of an action (i think not)? (2) if wellington and uxbridge die after the prussians arrive, do some prussians need to be alive to allow the English side to move, or does the invisible blucher work as a commander even when all his compatriots are either dead or off the field?


Ed is correct here also...

...since Blucher is leading the troops on from Chapelle St. Lambert (off the map) the Prussians, once activated, will still be arriving on the field of battle and can still be used by the Allied player - albeit the bonus of 1 extra action per turn is now lost.
The explanation of Blucher was given when the question was asked 'Do the Prussians still arrive on the board once Von Bulow has been killed'

Yes, as Blucher still had Pirch and Von Ziethen under his command and a large amount of troops to come to the aid of Wellington - it would be unrealistic to prevent the Prussians from further interference in the game just because Von Bulow died or was captured...and everybody knows how determined Blucher was to end Napoleon's reign whistle

Hope this makes sense...

Very kind regards,
Jason St.Just
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Ed Ray
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Thanks for clarifying. Two clarifications:
(1) But that means that when Wellington and Uxbridge are alive and Van Bulow is dead, the English side gets three moves, and that INCLUDES the Prussians' movement. Would I be correct in assuming that the English do NOT at this point have to give one of the three actions to the Prussians? IN other words, the English can use all three moves OR can use one moves and let the Prussians move twice or can use two moves and let the Prussians move once.

(2) It would then seem that it can be strategic to keep Van Bulow out of the Battle, as keeping him on the side preserves an extra move, and introducing him to the battle is very risky.

(3) I'll throw in a quick third question: If Van Bulow or any other piece is removed from the board to recuperate, can the player intentionally try to hide which piece is the heavy cavalry piece, or does he have to allow the opponent to know where the piece is until it is returned to the board? (My point is that once a heavy cavalry piece is 'discovered' and known, can one gain anonymity again by withdrawing the piece (once weakened) and mixing it with other withdrawn pieces (or with the Prussians in teh bag if we are talking about Van Bulow?)
 
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Jason St.Just
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26halo26 wrote:

(1) But that means that when Wellington and Uxbridge are alive and Van Bulow is dead, the English side gets three moves, and that INCLUDES the Prussians' movement. Would I be correct in assuming that the English do NOT at this point have to give one of the three actions to the Prussians? IN other words, the English can use all three moves OR can use one moves and let the Prussians move twice or can use two moves and let the Prussians move once.


No, if you want the Prussians to help you out, you will have to offer them at least one action - even if Von Bulow is captured.
So the rule is: the Prussians, once activated, ALWAYS are allotted at least one action...unless (I must be very detailed and specific here on BGG) there's only Uxbridge or Von Bulow alive and leading the troops. With only ONE ACTION left each turn you will be allowed to choose which troops to move: the Red OR the Black.

26halo26 wrote:

(2) It would then seem that it can be strategic to keep Van Bulow out of the Battle, as keeping him on the side preserves an extra move, and introducing him to the battle is very risky.


You can't as you have to pick the Prussian pieces blindly when they are activated

26halo26 wrote:

(3) I'll throw in a quick third question: If Van Bulow or any other piece is removed from the board to recuperate, can the player intentionally try to hide which piece is the heavy cavalry piece, or does he have to allow the opponent to know where the piece is until it is returned to the board? (My point is that once a heavy cavalry piece is 'discovered' and known, can one gain anonymity again by withdrawing the piece (once weakened) and mixing it with other withdrawn pieces (or with the Prussians in teh bag if we are talking about Van Bulow?)


You are allowed to hide the identity of the piece when in reserve yes ;-)

Very kind regards,
Jason St.Just
 
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Reinhard S.
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26halo26 wrote:
Thanks for clarifying. Two clarifications:
(1) But that means that when Wellington and Uxbridge are alive and Van Bulow is dead, the English side gets three moves, and that INCLUDES the Prussians' movement. Would I be correct in assuming that the English do NOT at this point have to give one of the three actions to the Prussians? IN other words, the English can use all three moves OR can use one moves and let the Prussians move twice or can use two moves and let the Prussians move once.


Jason already answererd, and of course he is right.
To allow the British to further use their 3 Actions for Red pieces (like they did until 11h) would make some sence, but it is not intentioned.

26halo26 wrote:

(2) It would then seem that it can be strategic to keep Van Bulow out of the Battle, as keeping him on the side preserves an extra move, and introducing him to the battle is very risky.


Yes, I think it is strategically senisble, to keep van Bülow off the Battle Board as Long as possible. And I disagree with Jason, that this should be impossible, just because the Prussian reinfordements are drawn randomly.
Each turn after Prussian Entry into the game, the allied Player may place up to 2 Pieces onto the "black flag" (it is White, but never mind...). As 1 ("Prussian") Action has to be used, this means at least 1 Prussian Piece must leave the flag and enter the Battle Board/Turn. In my opinion it's aboslutely up to You, which of the 2 pieces You choose.
So, when Bülow is blindly drawn and placed on the flag, You can Keep him in safety by always choosing the other unit to enter the playable board.

There is one (rare) exception to this: If - by chance - van Bülow AND the single Prussian Arty are on the flag AND both neighbouring spaces are occupied with French pieces, then the Aryt could not move and Bülow would have to fight one of those Frenchies.

If both of those spaces are occupied by British Units - well I don't know what happens then - but a Prussian-British compulsory fight would be a nice idea (Actually that happened, when the Prussian VanGiard met some German British Allies (Nassau? hanover...?) near Papelotte...).
ormally the Allied Player will be able to avoid such a situation

...

26halo26 wrote:

(3) I'll throw in a quick third question: If Van Bulow or any other piece is removed from the board to recuperate, can the player intentionally try to hide which piece is the heavy cavalry piece, or does he have to allow the opponent to know where the piece is until it is returned to the board? (My point is that once a heavy cavalry piece is 'discovered' and known, can one gain anonymity again by withdrawing the piece (once weakened) and mixing it with other withdrawn pieces (or with the Prussians in teh bag if we are talking about Van Bulow?)


Jason has answered already.
But remember, that Bülow is not a Heavy cavalry (his Combat Strenght may be misleading).
He - like all commanders - is considered Light CAV for all purposes.

greetings, Reinhard

...
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