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Star Wars: Armada» Forums » Variants

Subject: Custom Ship Card - K-Wing Squadron rss

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Steven Foster
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I was thinking last night about K-Wings, and had an idea on SLAMs.







SLAM. (At the end of the activation, if engaged, you may move.)

Reading it again, it could cause a little confusion. SLAM allows you to move again for free. In addition to the normal move and/or attack.

Points are worked out on Justin's (Church14) system.
SLAM I've costed at 3 points, Mirinda's unique at 4.

Thoughts?


 
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Rogue Knight
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I like the general idea. Perhaps something like after attacking a ship, you may make a free move.

Maybe even after attacking a ship and dealing atleast one damage, you may make a free move.
 
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Steven Foster
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In X-Wing you can't attack after using a SLAM, but you can bomb.
That was what made me think about having it as engaged targets, your 'attack' would be a bombing run. But it isn't required in X-Wing.

With a squadron command:
You could move to engage, attack, then SLAM away.

Without:
1. Move to engage, then SLAM away.
2. Attack an engaged squadron, then SLAM away.

It keeps SLAM as something special, without needing an attack. Stops people just using it every turn to get around quicker.
 
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Michael Lemick
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That is a very cool bomber. Too bad we can't get the actual miniatures to use with the card.
 
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Steven Foster
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ML2376 wrote:
That is a very cool bomber. Too bad we can't get the actual miniatures to use with the card.


Mel Miniatures on Shapeways:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/MJT7E3YSP/armada-12x-k-win...

or

https://www.shapeways.com/product/YWKZEFBYH/armada-6x-k-wing...

 
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Michael Lemick
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Those are REALLY cool. Now I just have to decided if I just want to get the K-wings or the combination in hopes that someone will come up with a card for the E-wing.
 
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Justin Hare
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I don't know how you got that value:

2 points for speed
6 points for hp
3 points for 3 blue anti-ship
2 for bomber
-1 for heavy
4 points for two black anti-ship
1 for blue anti-ship
3 for having multiple anti-ship dice. Since there are no 3 dice anti ship armaments yet, this could be higher.
-4 default

16 points before adding Slam.

Since slam appears to either be a super-Grit or a Grit+Rogue, it need to be more than 2. If your free move allows you to attack afterwards, then it is at least a 5 point keyword (Rogue costs 4). If it just lets you disengage without getting a shot at well, it is at least since Grit is 2 and onyl works against 1 squadron.

I would actually treat slam as it is in Xwing. A burst in speed at the cost of everything else. Slam should read more like "if this squadron is activated by a squadron command, it may move twice. If it does so, it cannot attack during this activation"
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Steven Foster
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ML2376 wrote:
Those are REALLY cool. Now I just have to decided if I just want to get the K-wings or the combination in hopes that someone will come up with a card for the E-wing.


Armada Shipyards have E-Wing cards.
http://armadashipyards.com/2015/10/03/e-wing-starfighter/

or

http://armadashipyards.com/set-1/
 
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Steven Foster
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Church14 wrote:
I don't know how you got that value:

2 points for speed
6 points for hp
3 points for 3 blue anti-ship
2 for bomber
-1 for heavy
4 points for two black anti-ship
1 for blue anti-ship
3 for having multiple anti-ship dice. Since there are no 3 dice anti ship armaments yet, this could be higher.
-4 default

16 points before adding Slam.

Since slam appears to either be a super-Grit or a Grit+Rogue, it need to be more than 2. If your free move allows you to attack afterwards, then it is at least a 5 point keyword (Rogue costs 4). If it just lets you disengage without getting a shot at well, it is at least since Grit is 2 and onyl works against 1 squadron.

I would actually treat slam as it is in Xwing. A burst in speed at the cost of everything else. Slam should read more like "if this squadron is activated by a squadron command, it may move twice. If it does so, it cannot attack during this activation"


Reading through yours there, have you priced up having 3 anti-ship dice twice?
I was using Firesped's formula, in the link in the OP.

Quote:
speed * .5
hull * .5
red dice * 1?
blue dice * 1
black dice * 2
anti squad dice * 1
special X * 1 (most ace pilots have rank 2, some are 1(b-wing, Wedge Mauler, Tie Bomber, Tie Interceptor), Darth Vader is 4)
counter x * .75
bomber x * 1.5 (X is the number of anti ship dice)
escort * 2.5
heavy * 0
Swarm * .5
Brace token * 2
Scatter Token * 4


So:
Speed: 1
Hull: 3
Blue Dice: 1
Black Dice: 4
Anti Sqd Dice: 3
Bomber: 4.5
SLAM: Priced as Special - 2 points
Total: 19

Ok my maths first time was off, I'll edit the card depending on which formula is used. I've not seen yours before.
Do you think three anti ship is too much? It needs to be more than a B-Wing, so two black?
You are also right about the possibility of attacking after a SLAM.
You are engaged, you SLAM engaging a second group then attack. That shouldn't be allowed. So the wording should include something about not being able to attack afterwards.
 
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Justin Hare
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I had a typo. The 3 for 3 blue is for the three blue anti-squadron, not ship. The points still stay the same

My forrmula is actually in the thread you linked to. Posted by me. It calculates wave 1 costs exactly and is really close on most of wave 2 (+/- 1 most of the time). At the time I just mentioned Bwings being 3 more points than they should be. When wave 2 dropped, it looked like having two anti-ship dice carries a 3 point penalty on top of what was paid for already.

So one black anti-ship die is 2 points. Having two black costs 7. 2 for each die and 3 more for having more than 1 anti-ship die.


Personally I would stick with two black. Bwings had ion cannons, lasers, and proton torpedoes. The KWing had something similar if memory serves.
 
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Steven Foster
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Church14 wrote:
I had a typo. The 3 for 3 blue is for the three blue anti-squadron, not ship. The points still stay the same

My forrmula is actually in the thread you linked to. Posted by me. It calculates wave 1 costs exactly and is really close on most of wave 2 (+/- 1 most of the time). At the time I just mentioned Bwings being 3 more points than they should be. When wave 2 dropped, it looked like having two anti-ship dice carries a 3 point penalty on top of what was paid for already.

So one black anti-ship die is 2 points. Having two black costs 7. 2 for each die and 3 more for having more than 1 anti-ship die.


Personally I would stick with two black. Bwings had ion cannons, lasers, and proton torpedoes. The KWing had something similar if memory serves.


I should have dug further in to that thread.
Speed: 2
Hull: 6
Anti Sqdn: 3
Anti Ship: 7 (2 black)
Heavy: -1
Bomber: 2
Constant: -4
Sub-Total:15
How many points for SLAM? I was thinking 2, from the basic special from Firesped. Possibly 3?

Quote:
From Wookiepedia:
K-Wing:
Medium-range twin laser cannon turret (1)
Short-range quad turbolaser turret (1)
Hardpoints (18; various configurations)
Advanced homing missiles[1]
T-33 plasma torpedoes[1]
Ion bomb[1]
Conner net[1]
B-Wing:
4 laser cannons[5]
Proton torpedoes[5]
Ion cannon[5]
Composite-beam laser


From that list K-Wings seem to have substantially more firepower.
Though some of it is short ranged. Maybe add to the Anti Sqdn?


 
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Steven Foster
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After talking to DiabloAzul from Armada Shipyards, I have re-worked the cards again, with a rewrite on a few bits. I have updated the cards in the OP.
 
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Rob Mayer
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I really like this rule for SLAM. I'm probably going to borrow it for KDY if you don't mind.
 
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Steven Foster
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KDY?
But, no go ahead. It's all good.
 
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Rob Mayer
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http://kdyards.com/index.php Kuat Drive Yards - it's a web-based custom content app for Armada, made by yours truly.
 
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Steven Foster
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Furyofaseraph wrote:
http://kdyards.com/index.php Kuat Drive Yards - it's a web-based custom content app for Armada, made by yours truly.


I will go have a read. Did you notice I qualified the rule a little in the OP. Just in case it was confusing.
 
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Rob Mayer
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I'm interpreting it as "At the end of your activation, if you are engaged, you may move again." - is that right?

Sounds like you can move again at the end of your turn, but only if you are engaged by another squadron.
 
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Steven Foster
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Furyofaseraph wrote:
I'm interpreting it as "At the end of your activation, if you are engaged, you may move again." - is that right?

Sounds like you can move again at the end of your turn, but only if you are engaged by another squadron.


That was the idea.
It's the closest I can think of emulating a bombing run with SLAM after, but no other attack.
 
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Rogue Knight
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What about something like "at the end of your activation, if you attacked a ship or are engaged, you may move"
 
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Steven Foster
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RogueKnight wrote:
What about something like "at the end of your activation, if you attacked a ship or are engaged, you may move"


From the way I see it with X-Wing, the SLAM is to get out of trouble with fighters. So you can't attack after using the SLAM action.
But you can bomb in the movement phase.
So to me it wouldn't count against ships.
 
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Rogue Knight
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Gets you away from fighters and makes you harder to target by a ship's AA weaponry. But it might be too powerful to have both.

I figured that was your goal, but as it sits now, you can use it while engaged with fighters. So if I activate with the squad command, I can move to engage squadrons, fire, and then at the end of my activation, move again to disengage from those squadrons. At this point it seems like it is better for anti-squad use rather than anti-ship.

If there is something there for use after attacking a ship (or after attacking a ship only), it would make more sense for bombing runs.
 
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Steven Foster
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I didn't want to add things it doesn't really have in X-Wing, but then there aren't really proper capital ships in X-Wing either.
Again my thought was more for it to be able to get away from fighters first so it can attack capital ships. The bombing part only really came in when I was working the action sequence from X-Wing through.
It does have two black dice for anti-ship (I had started with more), and bomber, so makes it the best bomber in the game so far.
 
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Rogue Knight
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Then it sounds like you achieved what you were looking for. :-)

I hope you didn't take any of my suggestions as criticism. It sounded like you weren't totally happy with the SLAM ability, so I was offering some suggestions.
 
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Steven Foster
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I think it was more the wording, which DiabloAzul helped with, and needing a sounding board. Not everything I come up with is spot on first time, so criticism is always appreciated, even if it does make me decide my first choice was right, at least for me.

They feel right to me now, they just need play testing.
i.e. An order to Shapeways ;-)
 
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Rogue Knight
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I struggle with wording as well. It's great having a community to help :-).

I bought a batch of stuff during the black friday sale... I just washed up a bunch of fighters, including one group of K-Wings. I'll have to order more though. As it sits, I only have eough models of most fighters to do one base (3 ships each)
 
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