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Subject: Amazing Experience rss

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Mike Houser
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I just finished my first game of Leaving Earth and it was one of the most satisfying experiences I've had in board gaming. Halfway through the solitaire game I was kicking myself for not tracking enough for a full session report - but I have to tell you the ending.

Through the game I'm of course learning how to play and I was quite meticulous with testing each system before using it for an important mission. Naturally I was really running out of time. There were two missions that required a Venus landing and in order to get a win I was going to have to do one of them - if Venus was landable. At the same time I had both the Moon Landing and Moon Base missions up. I decided to do a Venus survey and hope those missions were impossible and pour everything else into a single mission to get two astronauts to the moon and leave one behind to establish the base.

The Venus fly-by worked as Venus was a hellscape so now it was on to the moonshot. I had everything purchased and launched the mission in 1975. All components were guarenteed success and I had a doctor to take care of the radiation sickness. One made it back to Earth and the other was left with supplies. Now it was the end of the year and time to use the Life Support systems...which were completely untested! Turned over the card and - Success! (I'm hoping that maybe the Soviets will get the guy some more food next year.)

What a fantastic game. Full report for the next one.

-mh


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Kristabelle Du Bast
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Pretty much mirrors my impression on the first play. It is such an interesting and absorbing game that grows as your familiarity increases.
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Will H.
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My enthusiasm for this game is always increased by others' enthusiasm for this game! Leaving Earth is so great!
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Paul Bach
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I just finished my first game as well, Although it seems that you didn't cop out like me. I used the easy level and finished my five easy missions at the start of 1972. I like the game, but I will have to get my head into mission planning a lot more to handle the harder stuff. For the life of me I can't see the purpose of the Juno rocket except to get a probe into Lunar orbit. In every other situation it either doesn't have enough thrust on its own or actually becomes more inefficient as its mass starts overcoming its thrust at high difficulties and ganging them together just makes it worse. If I can get into a good headspace to figure out a good use for the Juno, I think I will have taken a giant leap toward better mission planning.
 
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Mike Hoyt

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Paul, various uses of the Juno will occur to you, but one you might miss playing solo is that Juno can be an inexpensive (and thus something you can do first!) way to claim some of those low VP missions. In a multi-player game that can be worth something
 
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Joe Fatula
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Another thing worth considering: Juno rockets can be fully tested for only $3 worth of rockets, compared to $15 for Atlas, $24 for Soyuz, or $45 for Saturn. To have complete confidence in a rocket design is very valuable.
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Larry L
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I had the opportunity to play this weekend at Dundracon and loved the game. We played at the medium difficulty and only had one manned mission. The rest could be handled by probes, and Junos are very efficient at the final stage of a mission at difficulty 3 or less with that 1 payload. They are also very efficient for testing landing systems-- launch a probe into the atmosphere and find out if it lands.

All that, I don't have enough experience to say whether they are important to success in the game in general.
 
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Will H.
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buffalohat wrote:
Another thing worth considering: Juno rockets can be fully tested for only $3 worth of rockets, compared to $15 for Atlas, $24 for Soyuz, or $45 for Saturn. To have complete confidence in a rocket design is very valuable.


Joe, wouldn't it cost somewhere between $13M and $23M to fully test Juno rockets?

You have to purchase 3 Juno rockets @ $1M each.

Then, firing each individually, and assuming a failure, $5M each to discard two failures. Assuming the last outcome is a success, it is discarded for free.

Of course, this assumes the outcome cards come up in the optimal order. If the first Juno is a success and you choose not to pay $10M to discard it, that same success card could come up over and over.

I don't know how you could fully test the Juno rockets for just $3M, but since you are the designer, I'm going to assume I'm making a mistake somewhere.
 
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Paul Bach
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gar0u wrote:
buffalohat wrote:
Another thing worth considering: Juno rockets can be fully tested for only $3 worth of rockets, compared to $15 for Atlas, $24 for Soyuz, or $45 for Saturn. To have complete confidence in a rocket design is very valuable.


Joe, wouldn't it cost somewhere between $13M and $23M to fully test Juno rockets?

You have to purchase 3 Juno rockets @ $1M each.

Then, firing each individually, and assuming a failure, $5M each to discard two failures. Assuming the last outcome is a success, it is discarded for free.

Of course, this assumes the outcome cards come up in the optimal order. If the first Juno is a success and you choose not to pay $10M to discard it, that same success card could come up over and over.

I don't know how you could fully test the Juno rockets for just $3M, but since you are the designer, I'm going to assume I'm making a mistake somewhere. :)


Also, don't you have to put something on to of the rocket, or can you fire it off by itself to test it? Putting a probe onto it doubles its mass and makes it impossible to even get to sub-orbital flight. (1M+1M)x3=6T compared to the 4T the Juno has.

(My other assumption is that you can not test a system that does not have enough thrust to accomplish a maneuver if a Success outcome is drawn. In other words, you can not attempt a launch of a Juno/Probe system to Sub-orbital Flight as it does not have enough thrust to accomplish the maneuver even if you drew a Success outcome.)
 
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Joe Fatula
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gar0u wrote:
buffalohat wrote:
Another thing worth considering: Juno rockets can be fully tested for only $3 worth of rockets, compared to $15 for Atlas, $24 for Soyuz, or $45 for Saturn. To have complete confidence in a rocket design is very valuable.


Joe, wouldn't it cost somewhere between $13M and $23M to fully test Juno rockets?

You have to purchase 3 Juno rockets @ $1M each.

Then, firing each individually, and assuming a failure, $5M each to discard two failures. Assuming the last outcome is a success, it is discarded for free.

Of course, this assumes the outcome cards come up in the optimal order. If the first Juno is a success and you choose not to pay $10M to discard it, that same success card could come up over and over.

I don't know how you could fully test the Juno rockets for just $3M, but since you are the designer, I'm going to assume I'm making a mistake somewhere.

No, your math is right. I was just looking at the cost of the testing that varies from one rocket type to another, ignoring the costs that are the same for any of them.
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Joe Fatula
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PaulRadagast wrote:
Also, don't you have to put something on to of the rocket, or can you fire it off by itself to test it? Putting a probe onto it doubles its mass and makes it impossible to even get to sub-orbital flight. (1M+1M)x3=6T compared to the 4T the Juno has.

(My other assumption is that you can not test a system that does not have enough thrust to accomplish a maneuver if a Success outcome is drawn. In other words, you can not attempt a launch of a Juno/Probe system to Sub-orbital Flight as it does not have enough thrust to accomplish the maneuver even if you drew a Success outcome.)


Two rules you need to know here:
1) A spacecraft can be made of absolutely anything (as long as all astronauts have a seat).
2) Any spacecraft may attempt a maneuver.

In other words, your assumptions are both incorrect. A Juno rocket by itself is a valid spacecraft. If a spacecraft attempts a maneuver, consumes rockets, but fails to generate enough thrust, the maneuver fails -- but the rockets that were consumed are still gone.
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Paul Bach
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buffalohat wrote:
PaulRadagast wrote:
Also, don't you have to put something on to of the rocket, or can you fire it off by itself to test it? Putting a probe onto it doubles its mass and makes it impossible to even get to sub-orbital flight. (1M+1M)x3=6T compared to the 4T the Juno has.

(My other assumption is that you can not test a system that does not have enough thrust to accomplish a maneuver if a Success outcome is drawn. In other words, you can not attempt a launch of a Juno/Probe system to Sub-orbital Flight as it does not have enough thrust to accomplish the maneuver even if you drew a Success outcome.)


Two rules you need to know here:
1) A spacecraft can be made of absolutely anything (as long as all astronauts have a seat).
2) Any spacecraft may attempt a maneuver.

In other words, your assumptions are both incorrect. A Juno rocket by itself is a valid spacecraft. If a spacecraft attempts a maneuver, consumes rockets, but fails to generate enough thrust, the maneuver fails -- but the rockets that were consumed are still gone.


So I could still test a rocket, even though I knew it would fail the maneuver, just to be able to dispose of an outcome card?
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Joe Fatula
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PaulRadagast wrote:
buffalohat wrote:
Two rules you need to know here:
1) A spacecraft can be made of absolutely anything (as long as all astronauts have a seat).
2) Any spacecraft may attempt a maneuver.

In other words, your assumptions are both incorrect. A Juno rocket by itself is a valid spacecraft. If a spacecraft attempts a maneuver, consumes rockets, but fails to generate enough thrust, the maneuver fails -- but the rockets that were consumed are still gone.


So I could still test a rocket, even though I knew it would fail the maneuver, just to be able to dispose of an outcome card?


Absolutely. You can fire rockets on a spacecraft without knowing in advance whether the maneuver will succeed or fail. If there were a rule preventing this, it would be a very cumbersome rule.
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Larry L
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Here is an example for using Junos: Landing a probe on the Moon. I'm still new at this, so please check my math.

(Assume everything is working)

With Juno
Payload: Probe mass 1. ($2)
Landing on moon, difficulty 2, Requires 1 Juno rockets (+$1) (Total mass 2)
Earth orbit to lunar orbit, difficulty 3: 1 Atlas (+$5) (Total mass 6)
Suborbital flight to Earth orbit, difficulty 5: 1 Soyuz (+$8) (Total mass 15)
Earth orbit to Suborbital flight, difficulty 3: 1 Soyuz (+$8)
Total cost: $24

Without Juno
Payload: Probe mass 1. ($2)
Landing on moon, difficulty 2, 1 Atlas rocket (+$5) (Total mass 5)
Earth orbit to lunar orbit, difficulty 3: 1 Atlas (+$5) (Total mass 9)
Earth to Earth orbit, difficulty 8: 2 Saturn (+$30)
Total cost: $42

That is a $18 difference. If you have that and a longer range probe mission (we did) the cost of Juno tech + testing is already covered and more. We never even developed Saturn rockets.

Edit: Found an error- 1 fewer Juno required than originally thought. Fixed
 
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Paul Bach
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buffalohat wrote:
PaulRadagast wrote:
So I could still test a rocket, even though I knew it would fail the maneuver, just to be able to dispose of an outcome card?


Absolutely. You can fire rockets on a spacecraft without knowing in advance whether the maneuver will succeed or fail. If there were a rule preventing this, it would be a very cumbersome rule.


Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm asking about firing off the rocket(s) of a spacecraft absolutely knowing the maneuver will fail because there is not enough thrust for the mass regardless of what outcome is pulled, just in order to be able to have the opportunity to get rid of an outcome card.
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Robert Manning
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PaulRadagast wrote:
I'm asking about firing off the rocket(s) of a spacecraft absolutely knowing the maneuver will fail because there is not enough thrust for the mass regardless of what outcome is pulled, just in order to be able to have the opportunity to get rid of an outcome card.
Yes, that is permitted.
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Larry L
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I just grasped that you don't even need a probe to test landing gear.

Juno Landing tester: Need four Juno rockets. Payload: 1 Juno Rocket (mass 1). First (and only) stage: 3 Juno rockets. Launch into atmosphere, then choose landing hazard as fourth Juno returns to ground.

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