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Subject: Prevalence of colour blindness in gamers vs proper grown ups rss

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Chris
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I hear mention of colour blind issues so so so much since I got into this nonsense. Obviously it's more of an issue day by day here than for real people but is it actually more common within this community as well as more relevant?

I can imagine a statistical association between colour blindness and being more erm... "Academically focussed" or "indoor minded" in childhood.
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i feel like no one's going to take this thread seriously because of the title and your use of 'real people' to describe what i can only assume is people who don't 'still play board games as adults'
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Alright, so I barely understand what you are Trying to imply, but I'll take a shot at answering.

I am red green colorblind (deuteranopia) and it very rarely , if ever, comes up on a day to day basis. On the rare occasion that I'm looking at a red and green pie chart, I just ask someone to help me and I explain why.

Because boardgames use red and green quite frequently, I often need to make adjustments. In galaxy trucker, for example, I play blue or yellow, and I replaced the red cubes with a shade of red I can distinguish better.

Bgg is a great resource and I think it's great that people like me can find out if a game can be made more accessible for us.

As far as I recall, 1/10 men are born colorblind so it has nothing to do with the hobby. It's sort of like saying blue eyed people play boardgames more.
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Waspinator
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"Real people"? Seriously?
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I hear mention of colour blind issues so so so much since I got into this nonsense. Obviously it's more of an issue day by day here than for real people but is it actually more common within this community as well as more relevant?

I can imagine a statistical association between colour blindness and being more erm... "Academically focussed" or "indoor minded" in childhood.


Or, you know, it could be that colour-blindness affects a hobby which regularly uses colour to distinguish between components more, making an otherwise manageable thing something that affects your ability to participate. EDIT: I'll give you 7/10 for the troll, though.
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Scott Nelson
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I have a friend and his brother. Growing up we'd play RISK. One was color-blind red/green=brown. The other was a gray-oriented colorblindness. Let's just say I had a lot of explaining to whom each piece was owned by. One was a mail carrier, the other a travel agent. In their fields of study it rarely comes up; in gaming - always a concern.
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Chris
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Shader10 wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I hear mention of colour blind issues so so so much since I got into this nonsense. Obviously it's more of an issue day by day here than for real people but is it actually more common within this community as well as more relevant?

I can imagine a statistical association between colour blindness and being more erm... "Academically focussed" or "indoor minded" in childhood.


Or, you know, it could be that colour-blindness affects a hobby which regularly uses colour to distinguish between components more, making an otherwise manageable thing something that affects your ability to participate. EDIT: I'll give you 7/10 for the troll, though.


That's my question though, obviously it matters more here, but is that the only reason we hear about it more? Is there a potential cultural bias?
 
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Re: Prevalence of colour blindness in gamers vs non-gamers
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dennis bennett
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:


I can imagine a statistical association between colour blindness and being more erm... "Academically focussed" or "indoor minded" in childhood.


and what would that tell us? (From what i remember, it's pretty well understood/known what the genetic basis of colourblindness is, and there is no connection to other genes that in any way affect behaviour/intelligence or anything like that)
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John
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ropearoni4 wrote:
Prevalence of colour blindness in gamers vs non-gamers

That's a better subject, though I assume "proper grown ups" and "real people" was somewhat tongue-in-cheek!

TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
I can imagine a statistical association between colour blindness and being more erm... "Academically focussed" or "indoor minded" in childhood.

I can imagine all kinds of things but it doesn't make them true. Possibly mechanisms for a link would be genes for colour blindness being linked to genes for being more inclined to play board games (I'd guess unlikely), colour blindness causing people to be more likely to play board games (seems unlikely) or some other less direct link (more likely, but effect likely to be small). Even if there was a link I would expect the increase number of colourblind board games to be a fraction of a percent and not a noticeable factor in you hearing more about colour blind issues on BGG. The main reason is that boardgames are less colour-blind friendly than general life.
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:


That's my question though, obviously it matters more here, but is that the only reason we hear about it more?


yes. if you think about it, there aren't that many other hobbies where things are so often colour coded badly or in a way where it would affect colour blind people.

TheRocketSurgeon wrote:

Is there a potential cultural bias?


what?
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zabdiel wrote:
The main reason is that boardgames are less colour-blind friendly than general life.

And I don't think this is due to people in the board game industry not caring - I suspect the board game industry is actually considers it more than many people - it's just difficult and there will be some people who haven't thought about it, or have released games before thinking about it, or there have been manufacturing problems etc.
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zabdiel wrote:
zabdiel wrote:
The main reason is that boardgames are less colour-blind friendly than general life.

And I don't think this is due to people in the board game industry not caring - I suspect the board game industry is actually considers it more than many people - it's just difficult and there will be some people who haven't thought about it, or have released games before thinking about it, or there have been manufacturing problems etc.


well, they should... but i'm not sure they do think about it as much as they should...

I often get the impression a large portion of the "industry" is very amateur/hobbyist-driven, and many people involved don't really know all that much about design, colours, colour blindness, user experience and all that stuff...

essentially what you'd need to know and understand about colour blindness and colour theory, and how they relate to production and printing processes, isn't really all that complicated. The information is readily available. even just Wikipedia is probably sufficient to understand the basics.

Implementing it is a different question though and it requires people working together at different levels.
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Ian Bennetts
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Statistically there are probably many factors that could skew the observed ratio of colourblind to non within the gaming community.

Apparently 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women worldwide suffer from some form of colourblindness.

I don't think it would be a stretch to suggest that the ratio of male to female people who would consider themselves gamers might affect the ratio of colourblind players to colourblind muggles.

Continuing with my unscientific conjectures: I participate in a few gaming groups consisting of around 25 people total and 90% male population, of that sampleI know there are 3 people who experience some form of colourblindness. I think that could fall within the worldwide average, provided the next 11 gamers I come across aren't colourblind.
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Chuck Harrison
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There was a bit of an uproar three months ago when the NFL ran a promotion that ended up with a team dressed in solid red playing against a team dressed in solid green.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25372052/look-b...
It's a similar situation to board game pieces, but a different audience.
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Sean
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What is colour-blindness anyway? What if those deemed colour-blind are actually perceiving colours in the natural world correctly? I'm not colour-blind in any sense after having been through occupationally centred batteries of tests; but it's still an interesting question to pose. Is it not just a perception and some of us perceive things differently? Either way, it would never hurt to remain mindful of those who 'see' things differently...
 
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marc lecours
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I think you accidentally left out a word in the title of the thread. Shouldn't it be:

Prevalence of colour blindness in NON gamers vs proper grown ups.
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dennis bennett
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SeanFR wrote:
What is colour-blindness anyway? What if those deemed colour-blind are actually perceiving colours in the natural world correctly? I'm not colour-blind in any sense after having been through occupationally centred batteries of tests; but it's still an interesting question to pose. Is it not just a perception and some of us perceive things differently? Either way, it would never hurt to remain mindful of those who 'see' things differently...


No.

(Please do yourself a favour and read up on what colourblindness really is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness )
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dennisthebadger wrote:
SeanFR wrote:
What is colour-blindness anyway? What if those deemed colour-blind are actually perceiving colours in the natural world correctly? I'm not colour-blind in any sense after having been through occupationally centred batteries of tests; but it's still an interesting question to pose. Is it not just a perception and some of us perceive things differently? Either way, it would never hurt to remain mindful of those who 'see' things differently...


No.

(Please do yourself a favour and read up on what colourblindness really is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness )


Thank you. I know exactly what the medical definition is colour-blindness is and as an extension the reason why I am deemed not to have it after being tested for it. I was merely posing the question from a philosophical stand point to comment on the fact that whether related to colour-blindness or not, we all perceive our worlds differently. With that in mind, remaining mindful of those differences in people can only be a good thing.
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dennis bennett
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SeanFR wrote:
dennisthebadger wrote:
SeanFR wrote:
What is colour-blindness anyway? What if those deemed colour-blind are actually perceiving colours in the natural world correctly? I'm not colour-blind in any sense after having been through occupationally centred batteries of tests; but it's still an interesting question to pose. Is it not just a perception and some of us perceive things differently? Either way, it would never hurt to remain mindful of those who 'see' things differently...


No.

(Please do yourself a favour and read up on what colourblindness really is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness )


Thank you. I know exactly what the medical definition is colour-blindness is and as an extension the reason why I am deemed not to have it after being tested for it. I was merely posing the question from a philosophical stand point to comment on the fact that whether related to colour-blindness or not, we all perceive our worlds differently. With that in mind, remaining mindful of those differences in people can only be a good thing.


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chris leko
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I would be willing to bet you know more color blind people than you realize, but they havent told you they are.

I was friends with someone for years before i found out they were completely color blind and the only reason it came up was because we went to climbing gym together. I told him to 'follow the green route' ( climbing gyms mark particular routes up the wall using strips of colored tape ) and he confessed that he couldnt identify any routes.
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slaybalj wrote:
I would be willing to bet you know more color blind people than you realize, but they havent told you they are.

I was friends with someone for years before i found out they were completely color blind and the only reason it came up was because we went to climbing gym together. I told him to 'follow the green route' ( climbing gyms mark particular routes up the wall using strips of colored tape ) and he confessed that he couldnt identify any routes.


Agreed, I only know the guys in my games group that are colourblind because it's come up as an issue in some game or other.
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dennis bennett
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often wrote:


what is that supposed to tell us?
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SeanFR wrote:

Thank you. I know exactly what the medical definition is colour-blindness is and as an extension the reason why I am deemed not to have it after being tested for it. I was merely posing the question from a philosophical stand point to comment on the fact that whether related to colour-blindness or not, we all perceive our worlds differently. With that in mind, remaining mindful of those differences in people can only be a good thing.


The philosophical stand point on this is pretty simple: Colour deficient people can distinguish fewer colours than people with three cones in standard pigmentation who in turn can distinguish fewer colours than people with Tetrachromacy who in turn can distinguish fewer colours than any animal with more than four channels for colour information like many birds, fish, reptiles and insects. Fewer distinctions means two things: Fewer primary colours and more grey.

One of the most common kinds of colour deficiency in men is Dichromacy. For those people information on the red/green channel is pretty weak making it hard to almost impossible for them to distinguish any colours that include shades of green or red. What looks like orange to me for example is a hue that relies on a value well into the yellow side of the blue/yellow channel and a value on the red side of the red/green channel. To any man or woman with Dichromacy the yellow value will come through just fine but the value of the red/green channel will tend towards neutral grey, making it hard to say for the person in question whether they're looking at a desaturated yellow shirt or a bright orange one.

IF you really want to know more about this, I recommend "Color for Philosophers" by C.L. Hardin. Philosophy is a serious academic enterprise that seeks to lift the veil of ignorance off the world instead of shrouding it further in empty worded mystery.
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