Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: Is there a battle app? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What I really want is an app where I plug in all the variables and it walks through the battle process, figuring out all the bonuses and penalties, etc. It's not so much that I want these things done automatically or want them hidden from me... it's that I just want something that enforces all the rules and makes sure I'm not forgetting something.

Does such a thing exist? If not, will someone make one for me? Something official from the publisher would be awesome. The app for One Night Ultimate Werewolf is an essential app. I think this would be almost as crucial. I mean sure, you can do without it, but there are so many people who struggle with the rules of Mage Knight, especially when they only play it occasionally, that I think this would be huge. It would for me at least.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Wilczewski
United States
Folsom
California
flag msg tools
badge
Someone on the internet is wrong!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I hope someone does this - I love the idea.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Miguel Guijo
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great idea, i wish i where a programmer nerd.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Meltzer
United States
Dover
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Eight ball, corner pocket
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Let's spec this out. What would you want to enter in as variables, what would you want the output to be, etc?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mizerak wrote:
Let's spec this out. What would you want to enter in as variables, what would you want the output to be, etc?
All the relevant bits. What creature you are attacking (and thus their resistances, etc.), whether they are fortified, what attack card you are playing (and thus what type of damage you are dealing), and anything that might change how much/what type of damage you'd deal (which I can't think of anything right now that would be relevant, but that's kind of the point of wanting the app).

So what I'd love is you select those items, then it goes through the phases and you assign the attacks to the relevant creatures, it calculates the attack value (and shows you where it comes from), the block value( and shows you where it comes from), etc. Then the same for attacks against yourself (you'd need to include your hired help as well so that you could assign damage).

In addition to just enforcing the rules, I want it to specifically spell out where everything is coming from, so that you can start learning all the rules and exceptions and know how to do it yourself.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Reverend Uncle Bastard
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Unapologetic Continual Troublemaker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It would be tremendously difficult to include all of your wishlist. Just to use blocking as an example. Even if the app knows what cards you have and what manna is in the pool, it would not be able to calculate block as you have many different ways of playing your cards to generate it. At best it could present you with a list of many blocking options. And even this would involve the app knowing not just your cards and units, plus manna in the pool, but also all of the cards available in the offer since some units/spells let you use those abilities too.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Short answer: no.

Long answer: no, and it would take the publisher's capital to get it done. WizKids almost surely doesn't care enough, based on their historical attitude toward MK. Maybe if Zev gets interested in the idea, now that he's heading up their board gaming division? So... bother Zev about it?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
LargeGoblin
msg tools
I'm still a little confused. Let me see if I'm on the right track.

Stuff you choose/enter:
Cards in your hand
Units in your control
Monster(s) you are fighting and location type (to determine fortified or not, whether you can use units, etc.)
Which cards/unit effects you are playing on what in each of the combat phases
How you will allocate unblocked wounds

Stuff the application tells you:
When you've played enough attack to defeat a monster
When you've played enough block to block a monster
When you've assigned all wounds for unblocked monsters

Is this what we're talking about? Could you sketch out a UI of how you imagine this looking? You could make it in Paint or whatever. Obviously, using art from the game would not fly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
reverendunclebastard wrote:
It would be tremendously difficult to include all of your wishlist. Just to use blocking as an example. Even if the app knows what cards you have and what manna is in the pool, it would not be able to calculate block as you have many different ways of playing your cards to generate it.
It doesn't have to calculate every possible blocking option, just the one I select.

reverendunclebastard wrote:
At best it could present you with a list of many blocking options. And even this would involve the app knowing not just your cards and units, plus manna in the pool, but also all of the cards available in the offer since some units/spells let you use those abilities too.
You're overbuilding the app. Just have it let you select a card from a list of all the cards. So you select a spell that allows you to use the ability of a card in the offer, so you click on the spell and it lets you choose a card that you're duplicating. Only then does it figure out what the block would be.

Basically, you'd tell the app, here's what I'm doing... tell me how the attack goes and possibly how much damage you have to absorb (and if that has to go to a unit, you just select a card from the list of cards).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tumorous wrote:
Long answer: no, and it would take the publisher's capital to get it done. WizKids almost surely doesn't care enough, based on their historical attitude toward MK. Maybe if Zev gets interested in the idea, now that he's heading up their board gaming division? So... bother Zev about it?
Well if the publisher won't, maybe it could be an open source solution could work. There's a lot of gamers who are also programmers. Most of the capital needed to get it down is programming time. People have given away their programming time for other projects they have passion for. Maybe we could hoodwink a few into this project.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think writing a simple app or website that would let you step through the combat sequence and make your choices and enforce the rules would be entirely feasible.

But the people who could do it wouldn't have any use for it. So it's not clear how such a thing would come to be. You would have to find someone who is motivated to create it even though they don't need it themself. I could create it, but it's not a high enough priority for me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LargeGoblin wrote:
I'm still a little confused. Let me see if I'm on the right track.

Stuff you choose/enter:
Cards in your hand
Units in your control
Monster(s) you are fighting and location type (to determine fortified or not, whether you can use units, etc.)
Which cards/unit effects you are playing on what in each of the combat phases
How you will allocate unblocked wounds

Stuff the application tells you:
When you've played enough attack to defeat a monster
When you've played enough block to block a monster
When you've assigned all wounds for unblocked monsters

Is this what we're talking about? Could you sketch out a UI of how you imagine this looking? You could make it in Paint or whatever. Obviously, using art from the game would not fly.
So I'm thinking it'd be something like this. You click on an enemy type. It shows you the available monsters of that type and you select one. Repeat as necessary. Then you select the cards that you want to attack with... maybe there's icons for the different types of cards, spells, artifacts, starting decks, etc. that pop open a list of the relevant cards. Then you drag an attack card onto a monster.

It shows the phases of attack. For example, It would show that you do no damage during the ranged phase. It shows that the monster does x attack in the block phase. And you could select and drag a blocking card to the monster at any time and it would show how much you've blocked and/or how much damage you need to absorb. Then it shows how much attack value you are dealing in the normal attack phase and whether it is being modified by bonuses penalties. You could select and add any relevant cards that you'd use to modify the attack. And you can select a card from unit decks to absorb damage and it would display how many wounds that unit would take. Or you put in your level information and it calculates the same for you.

So yeah... programming it could get a little complicated. But so can figuring it out yourself.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
I think writing a simple app or website that would let you step through the combat sequence and make your choices and enforce the rules would be entirely feasible.

But the people who could do it wouldn't have any use for it. So it's not clear how such a thing would come to be. You would have to find someone who is motivated to create it even though they don't need it themself. I could create it, but it's not a high enough priority for me.
You'd need people who love the game and want to share that love with other people. Someone who wants to make the experience easier for new players and people who are making a lot of mistakes. It requires charitable motivations. I suspect that rules you out.

Alternatively, someone could make and market that app. Although I suspect that a publisher might let a free app that helps people play their game get away with using artwork from the game, whereas a paid app wouldn't get that sort of approval.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
It requires charitable motivations. I suspect that rules you out.


I give away several million dollars a year. But I suppose that's different. It's like Kanye West, it may be a good thing, but is it actually more important and valuable than schools in Africa?
4 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spike K
msg tools
A logic flow diagram would be easier and just as helpful.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Reverend Uncle Bastard
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Unapologetic Continual Troublemaker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While I understand that there is a small but significant learning curve to the combat in this game, it is really based on a few simple principles and the most difficult math is figuring out 1/2 of a given number. So far thousands of people have managed to figure it out. So I guess I just find the idea of an app to be a solution in search of a problem. Play a few games, read the rules and check the forums here for some very helpful advice and in no time you will be able to use the best app of all to figure out combat, your mind (which is free and not limited to any single operating system)!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephane Guibord
Canada
Vaudreuil-dorion
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunkd wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
It would be tremendously difficult to include all of your wishlist. Just to use blocking as an example. Even if the app knows what cards you have and what manna is in the pool, it would not be able to calculate block as you have many different ways of playing your cards to generate it.
It doesn't have to calculate every possible blocking option, just the one I select.

reverendunclebastard wrote:
At best it could present you with a list of many blocking options. And even this would involve the app knowing not just your cards and units, plus manna in the pool, but also all of the cards available in the offer since some units/spells let you use those abilities too.
You're overbuilding the app. Just have it let you select a card from a list of all the cards. So you select a spell that allows you to use the ability of a card in the offer, so you click on the spell and it lets you choose a card that you're duplicating. Only then does it figure out what the block would be.

Basically, you'd tell the app, here's what I'm doing... tell me how the attack goes and possibly how much damage you have to absorb (and if that has to go to a unit, you just select a card from the list of cards).


This is even too complicated and not necessary.

Let you just add the number of attack (which type) and number of block. a player should be able to provide these value from his card. I don't think we would even need to have all cards listed and selected and desired way of playing them.

1- Select enemy(ies) you are fighting
2- Range phase, apps let you enter number of range or siege combat *value* (no card, anyone who plays this game can put these value in).
- If enemy is dead, end
- If range does not apply, continue
3- Blocking phase.
- Do you want to assign units to block? If so
- Select first unit and mount of shield
- if damage left, ask if another unit is block (repeat steps) or assign damage to hero
- If assign damage to hero, enter current armor level = amount of damage card to draw

4- Attacking phase
- Enter amount of damage of each type if different (Physical, cold, fire, firecold.
- If multiple enemies, select priority of enemy
- app return number of dead enemies, with any left


This is a minimum that the app could do and it would not require a huge thing. If you do not wish to build a database of all enmy (wouldn't be that hard to do), you could even leave the user to enter the enemy stats (attack, armor value, type of attach and armor) so they can be considered in the calculation.

Also, I'm doing this out of memory, I might have a few rules off in my post but it's just to provide an idea of how simple the app could be.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Kerrison
United Kingdom
Exeter
Devon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Guibs wrote:

This is even too complicated and not necessary.

Let you just add the number of attack (which type) and number of block. a player should be able to provide these value from his card. I don't think we would even need to have all cards listed and selected and desired way of playing them.

1- Select enemy(ies) you are fighting
2- Range phase, apps let you enter number of range or siege combat *value* (no card, anyone who plays this game can put these value in).
- If enemy is dead, end
- If range does not apply, continue
3- Blocking phase.
- Do you want to assign units to block? If so
- Select first unit and mount of shield
- if damage left, ask if another unit is block (repeat steps) or assign damage to hero
- If assign damage to hero, enter current armor level = amount of damage card to draw

4- Attacking phase
- Enter amount of damage of each type if different (Physical, cold, fire, firecold.
- If multiple enemies, select priority of enemy
- app return number of dead enemies, with any left


This is a minimum that the app could do and it would not require a huge thing. If you do not wish to build a database of all enmy (wouldn't be that hard to do), you could even leave the user to enter the enemy stats (attack, armor value, type of attach and armor) so they can be considered in the calculation.

Also, I'm doing this out of memory, I might have a few rules off in my post but it's just to provide an idea of how simple the app could be.



I agree that programming in every type of card or effect the player could use massively complicates the task. The above would work pretty well for the majority of battles.

However, you still have a number of cases where you have to apply special effects, e.g one or more enemies lose swiftness or resistances, that kind of thing.

To be honest I think the most problematic part of the app would be creating the interface so that it is both intuitive, easier than just adding stuff up manually, and most importantly - allows you to tweak any of the variables without restarting the whole combat routine. "Okay, what if I decide to block with this unit instead" kind of thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Guibs wrote:
This is a minimum that the app could do and it would not require a huge thing. If you do not wish to build a database of all enmy (wouldn't be that hard to do), you could even leave the user to enter the enemy stats (attack, armor value, type of attach and armor) so they can be considered in the calculation.

Yeess, but I think you've reduced the task too far. Now it's just arithmetic. Assuming that someone can handle a small amount of mental math, they should be quicker doing it themselves than all the setup of selecting units and enemies, setting armor levels, inputting various values depending on the cards played, etc.

And I don't think it lives up to the request:

Thunkd wrote:
What I really want is an app where I plug in all the variables and it walks through the battle process, figuring out all the bonuses and penalties, etc. It's not so much that I want these things done automatically or want them hidden from me... it's that I just want something that enforces all the rules and makes sure I'm not forgetting something.

My interpretation (correct me if I'm wrong) is that this app would correctly interpret and enforce the rules of combat given all the interactions of spells, actions, unit abilities, artifacts, and token characteristics. So it would do things like:
mb Take into account the effects of Tremor, including the 1 Armor floor.
mb Remember and apply resistance from Lethal Chill.
mb Correctly interact Demolish vs. Fire Resistance.
mb Prevent me from assigning damage to units after playing Into the Heat.

That's why I said it would require extraordinary effort. Sure, something to add and subtract combat values could be as straightforward as a spreadsheet. But enforcing the entire combat ruleset of Mage Knight calls for a fairly complex project.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Kerrison
United Kingdom
Exeter
Devon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was thinking 'enforce the rules' would refer mostly to the various effects on enemy tokens & playing everything in the correct order, e.g reducing the effect of block against fire attacks, doubling the damage for unblocked brutal enemies, no ranged attacks on fortified enemies, grouping enemies to be attacked and sharing their defensive abilities, that sort of thing. Even without the effects of specific cards, there is still enough going on in Mage Knight combats that such an app would be far more than just simple arithmetic. There are a *lot* of rules to enforce.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.