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Subject: Some questions after my 1st play rss

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Nick Leonard
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I just played this game today for the first time and I think it's tremendous (even though I lost). I have the Devir 2014 edition (Spanish) which I believe is based on the Pegasus 2007 edition.

Anyway, here are some basic questions.

1. Under what circumstances would you want to withdraw a leader from the board?

2. If there is more than one external conflict in the same move (i.e. there are two or more matching leaders in the joined kingdom, and the first conflict does not separate the kingdom), do players get to replenish their tile count between the conflicts?

3. Does the black leader score points for ziggurats/monuments in the kingdom if neither colour is black? I suspect the answer to this is no, but because black scores for non-black tiles, I thought it best to confirm if black also scores for non-black ziggurats.

4. My version has quite a few unification tiles (6 I think), but I can't see why more than one is ever necessary. Is that right?

Thanks!
 
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Caleb
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1. If you know he will be attacked and you will lose, thus giving points to your enemy, and there is nowhere safe to move him to. It's not too terribly common.

2. No.

3. I don't know the ziggurat rules but black does not score for non-black monuments regardless if there is no matching leader in the kingdom.

4. Mine came with 4 (I think) which I assumed was just to have 1 handy for each player.
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Christopher Dearlove
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1. Well, that's really up to you to find a use for. But two things spring to mind. One is to put a different leader in that place. But you could instead move elsewhere. So why might you want that leader off board? Because you want to remove the opportunity for a war is the most obvious case. But it's a bit weak, and I don't recall ever doing it.

2. No.

3. No. Edit: That's the monument answer. It doesn't make sense for ziggurat (wonder in FFG). I actually don't recall the building answer.

4. I don't know about Mayfair set. The original HiG version had just one. The FFG version has one per player. It has the minor advantage of after a long war you can say "now, whose turn was that?" And the answer is there.

For 2 and 3, I don't know about Mayfair rules, but the FFG rules definitely answer those questions.
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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Welcome to the exciting world of Tigris & Euphrates!

1. Defensively, you may want to withdraw a leader if an opponent leader of a stronger kingdom threatens an external war. This will deny your opponent cubes. Offensively, you may want to withdraw a leader if it leads to its kingdom being divided (because the leader was the only remaning link between two halves). This leaves two weaker kingdoms which you may attack with your next action.

2. The players do not replenish their tiles until the end of the turn. This means that if a player triggers a conflict in her first action and again in her second action, the players have less tiles for the second conflict. This is good to know if you lost the first conflict but still have tiles for the second conflict.

3. The black leader only scores for black monuments. Don't confuse ziggurats with monuments. There is a ziggurat expansion where a ziggurat scores 1 point of any color to the black leader.

4. I also have too many unification tiles so I guess they are spare ones. You really only need one for the game, not one per player.
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Nick Leonard
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Thanks for the replies and answers! It must be 4 unification tiles that I have just to give one per player as some of you said.

nhjelmberg wrote:
1. Defensively, you may want to withdraw a leader if an opponent leader of a stronger kingdom threatens an external war. This will deny your opponent cubes.


Thanks, though it still seems that it would generally be better to move your leader elsewhere on the board rather than withdraw it.

But your answer is very intriguing anyway. Withdrawing or moving a leader defensively would indeed deny cubes to your opponent, but it would also give them more supporters (assuming you had some to begin with) in their enlarged kingdom with which to defend themselves against future external conflicts.
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Mark McGee
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Moving it elsewhere takes both of your actions. One to withdraw it, and another to place it (unless I have this rule wrong), so withdrawing it happens each time you want to relocate a leader.
 
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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meshnaster wrote:
Moving it elsewhere takes both of your actions. One to withdraw it, and another to place it (unless I have this rule wrong), so withdrawing it happens each time you want to relocate a leader.


I don't think so, the rules state "A leader can either come from outside the board or be repositioned from another space on the board. Furthermore, a leader can be withdrawn from the board."

That said, I've never seen withdrawn a leader from the board, only repositioned it.
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Nick Leonard
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I also didn't think it took two moves to reposition a leader on the board. That's why I asked the original question - because it always seems like the better move is to reposition rather than withdraw if the 'cost' (one of your two moves) is the same.
 
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nhjelmberg wrote:
3. The black leader only scores for black monuments. Don't confuse ziggurats with monuments. There is a ziggurat expansion where a ziggurat scores 1 point of any color to the black leader.


Yeah, that was confusing. Ziggurats are formed with 5 black tiles, in the shape of a '+' sign...

O
OOO
O


Monuments are formed on a 2x2 grid of tiles (all the same), come a "4 choose 2 colors" of colors, with one of those tiles matching the same as the tiles used to build it.
 
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Martin G
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meshnaster wrote:
Moving it elsewhere takes both of your actions. One to withdraw it, and another to place it (unless I have this rule wrong), so withdrawing it happens each time you want to relocate a leader.


You do have it wrong - a leader move is only one action.
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Mark McGee
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qwertymartin wrote:
meshnaster wrote:
Moving it elsewhere takes both of your actions. One to withdraw it, and another to place it (unless I have this rule wrong), so withdrawing it happens each time you want to relocate a leader.


You do have it wrong - a leader move is only one action.


Well then, I guess I've been handicapping myself. Just by reading this thread, my skill has gone up.
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meshnaster wrote:
qwertymartin wrote:
meshnaster wrote:
Moving it elsewhere takes both of your actions. One to withdraw it, and another to place it (unless I have this rule wrong), so withdrawing it happens each time you want to relocate a leader.


You do have it wrong - a leader move is only one action.


Well then, I guess I've been handicapping myself. Just by reading this thread, my skill has gone up.

Double, action, efficiency!
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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ackmondual wrote:
nhjelmberg wrote:
3. The black leader only scores for black monuments. Don't confuse ziggurats with monuments. There is a ziggurat expansion where a ziggurat scores 1 point of any color to the black leader.


Yeah, that was confusing. Ziggurats are formed with 5 black tiles, in the shape of a '+' sign...

O
OOO
O


Monuments are formed on a 2x2 grid of tiles (all the same), come a "4 choose 2 colors" of colors, with one of those tiles matching the same as the tiles used to build it.


In the current FFG version the ziggurat has become a wonder. And there are also buildings, a third category.

Edit: Corrected to wonder.
 
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Dearlove wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
nhjelmberg wrote:
3. The black leader only scores for black monuments. Don't confuse ziggurats with monuments. There is a ziggurat expansion where a ziggurat scores 1 point of any color to the black leader.


Yeah, that was confusing. Ziggurats are formed with 5 black tiles, in the shape of a '+' sign...

O
OOO
O


Monuments are formed on a 2x2 grid of tiles (all the same), come a "4 choose 2 colors" of colors, with one of those tiles matching the same as the tiles used to build it.


In the current FFG version the ziggurat has become a monument. And there are also buildings, a third category.
yuk, so you need to say "monument monument", or "ziggurat monument"?
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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ackmondual wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
nhjelmberg wrote:
3. The black leader only scores for black monuments. Don't confuse ziggurats with monuments. There is a ziggurat expansion where a ziggurat scores 1 point of any color to the black leader.


Yeah, that was confusing. Ziggurats are formed with 5 black tiles, in the shape of a '+' sign...

O
OOO
O


Monuments are formed on a 2x2 grid of tiles (all the same), come a "4 choose 2 colors" of colors, with one of those tiles matching the same as the tiles used to build it.


In the current FFG version the ziggurat has become a monument. And there are also buildings, a third category.
yuk, so you need to say "monument monument", or "ziggurat monument"?


I shouldn't post late at night. Ziggurat has become a wonder. I'll correct my post.
 
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Evan Moir
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Quick follow up - do players replenish their tiles after conflict(s) even if it wasn't their turn? Or do Giles get replenished only at the end of one's own turn?
 
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Martin G
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At the end of each player's turn, all players replenish.
 
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