Hoss Man
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A point of confusion came up when I was showing the game to sedjtroll yesterday...

What exactly is the order of operations when taking advantage of Special Powers?


In some cases it's obvious, "Build: +<apple>" and "Build: +<wild> for <icon>" are clearly documented to mean you get discounts during the build action.

But what about "Build: +<gold>" and "Build: <card><card> -> <gold>" ? can you use the special power to obtain an additional gold *before* you build and use that gold when making the purchase?

Or consider the "Develop: +<card>" and "Build: +<card>" cards. Can you draw your bonus card first and then immediately develop/build that same card?
 
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Matt D
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hossman wrote:
A point of confusion came up when I was showing the game to sedjtroll yesterday...

What exactly is the order of operations when taking advantage of Special Powers?


In some cases it's obvious, "Build: +<apple>" and "Build: +<wild> for <icon>" are clearly documented to mean you get discounts during the build action.

But what about "Build: +<gold>" and "Build: <card><card> -> <gold>" ? can you use the special power to obtain an additional gold *before* you build and use that gold when making the purchase?

Or consider the "Develop: +<card>" and "Build: +<card>" cards. Can you draw your bonus card first and then immediately develop/build that same card?


As far as I understand it, you take the action first, and then reap the rewards.

So you cannot use a reward for taking an action to pay for that action.

Likewise, if you, for example, take the Build action, the card you draw cannot be the card that you use to discard if, for example, like Witch's Hut, you discard a card in order to gain a gold.
 
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Hoss Man
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hestiansun wrote:


As far as I understand it, you take the action first, and then reap the rewards.

So you cannot use a reward for taking an action to pay for that action.

Likewise, if you, for example, take the Build action, the card you draw cannot be the card that you use to discard if, for example, like Witch's Hut, you discard a card in order to gain a gold.


I would generally agree with you that your interpretation makes sense -- except that it breaks down for things like "Build: +<apple>" which by definition only make sense as a transient bonus resource that you utilize during the build action.

And if that is a bonus you utilize during the build action, how is it different (from a rules wording / clarification standpoint) from utilizing a "Build: +<gold>" gold bonus during a build action?
 
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Matt D
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hossman wrote:
hestiansun wrote:


As far as I understand it, you take the action first, and then reap the rewards.

So you cannot use a reward for taking an action to pay for that action.

Likewise, if you, for example, take the Build action, the card you draw cannot be the card that you use to discard if, for example, like Witch's Hut, you discard a card in order to gain a gold.


I would generally agree with you that your interpretation makes sense -- except that it breaks down for things like "Build: +<apple>" which by definition only make sense as a transient bonus resource that you utilize during the build action.

And if that is a bonus you utilize during the build action, how is it different (from a rules wording / clarification standpoint) from utilizing a "Build: +<gold>" gold bonus during a build action?


An excellent point I had not considered. It seems we need to get a real authority to weigh in. I can totally see it either way now as written. I would suspect they would want build resources handled differently from a balance standpoint, but as written the rules do not support that.
 
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Rick Holzgrafe
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I had this ALL TYPED UP and carefully proofread, then the Geek went down just when I hit Submit and I lost it all. angry Okay, let's try this again:

The PnP rulebook is unclear about the order in which card powers can be used. We are clarifying that for the final rulebook. Here's how it works:

The Rules

Card powers which grant a resource for building (such as the Wood Mill, which grants Build: +Wood) are used during the Build action, to help pay for the cost of building.

All other card powers can be used only after paying for and completing the basic action. You may freely choose the order in which you use these actions.

"Instant" powers are used only once, in the turn in which the card is built or recruited. All others can be used only on later turns.

Some card powers have a cost. You must pay the cost at the time you use the power; if you can't pay, you can't use the power.

Use of card powers is always optional.

Some Examples

You must pay a card to Develop a resource before using the Barracks (Develop: +Card) to draw another card: so you can't use the card from the Barracks to pay for that same Develop action.

On the other hand, if you lead a Build action, that action includes drawing a card. So you could use that card as part of the payment for Headquarters (Build: pay two cards to gain one gold) because you must complete the action before using the Headquarters's power.

Suppose you build Witch's Hut (Instant pay one card to gain one gold) on a follow action, and it was the last card in your hand, so that immediately after building it, your hand is empty. But you have an Armory (Build: Draw one card) in your village. After building, you can use the Armory to draw a card, then use that card to pay for the Witch's Hut's power. (So to be clear: the Instant icon means "on this turn", not "before doing anything else".)

The Sorceress (Build: pay 1 gold for 1 Wild resource) must be paid up front in order to get the Wild resource for your build action; you cannot use any other card power to get the gold before paying to use the Sorceress. Because card powers are always optional, you are never required to use the Sorceress; you only pay if you choose to use her power.

Building the Armory does not allow you to draw an extra card for building the Armory itself, because its card power is not instant and can't be used on the same turn in which you build it.

I hope that covers everything! If not, I know I can trust you all to let me know. Thanks!
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Matt D
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Great clarification. Thanks!

This seemed like the way it would make sense to be played, so good to know it's going to be explicit in the rulebook now.

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Greg Justice
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Follow up question. When following the build action, are you able to utilize card powers (like wood mill) again?
 
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ElCapitan76 wrote:
Follow up question. When following the build action, are you able to utilize card powers (like wood mill) again?


Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: If a card has a power associated with an action (such as the Wood Mill's "Build: +Wood" power), then you may use that power any time you take the action, regardless of whether you are leading or following.

However, you must actually take the action in order to use the power. For example, if you have the Barracks with its "Develop: +Card" power, you can't use the power unless you actually develop a resource. If somebody leads the Develop action and you don't develop something yourself when it's your turn to follow, then you don't get the +Card. If you actually do develop something, then you do get to use the power to draw the extra card.

Does that answer your question?
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Yes, absolutely. Thank you.
 
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