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Subject: Modern Classics: Which post-2010 release will be widely respected in say 2025 rss

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If I had to pick sides, I'd say I'm more of a "Cult of the Old" type of gamer. And that's mainly because I'm the kind of gamer who doesn't invest in games until they've proved their staying power. Their "legacy", if you will. I don't often jump on the hotness train until enough people I trust tell me: "you've GOT to play this!"

Having said that, I'm curious to learn about more recent games and their long-term potential. What are some "Cult of the New" games (let's say 2010 and newer releases only) that, in the year 2025, will be remembered as being ground breaking, seminal, important or just incredibly fun?

For a frame of reference, what will be the El Grandes, Power Grids, Pandemics, Dominions, Puerto Ricos, Arkham Horrors, Nexus Ops, Hives or Twilight Struggles of the future (but not limited to just those games)?


Edit:
I added some clarification here:
Re: Modern Classics: Which post-2010 release will be widely respected in say 2025
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Re: Modern Classics: Which post-2010 release will be widely respected in say *mirror* 2025
whistle Case Blue
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I feel like Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar is a pretty solid bet. The complexity/gimmicky aspect of the cog-wheels might turn away some, but after you get past that, I feel like there's a good, solid game there.

I also think Love Letter has some staying power. Unending rethemes aside, the basic gameplay is well-rounded and entertaining, for its time slot.
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GROGnads wrote:

... which is MMP 2007 (But I agree with you, at least for the grogs, I know!)

And I'd relaunch with (2010+):

- The US Civil War (2015) for merging (almost...) the old VG's TCW with Herman's FTP (...but those leaders with a clocked death, uhm...)

- Twilight Struggle (Italian deluxe was 2011) because you know, it's the most non-wargame played as a wargame by non-wargamers around (if that makes sense!)

- Fire in the Lake (2014) because all we love the smell of napalm in the morning

- Empire of the Sun 2nd (2015) because it's the PTO, period

- Paths of Glory 4th (2010) because it showed that yes, a playable WW1 can be done

Off the top of my head...
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eckswyezed wrote:
If I had to pick sides, I'd say I'm more of a "Cult of the Old" type of gamer. And that's mainly because I'm the kind of gamer who doesn't invest in games until they've proved their staying power. Their "legacy", if you will. I don't often jump on the hotness train until enough people I trust tell me: "you've GOT to play this!"

Having said that, I'm curious to learn about more recent games and their long-term potential. What are some "Cult of the New" games (let's say 2010 and newer releases only) that, in the year 2025, will be remembered as being ground breaking, seminal, important or just incredibly fun?

For a frame of reference, what will be the El Grandes, Power Grids, Pandemics, Dominions, Puerto Ricos, Arkham Horrors, Nexus Ops, Hives or Twilight Struggles of the future (but not limited to just those games)?


Heopefully we never see a Nexus Ops again!

Through the Ages might. It is easy enough to make fan made cards to keep it fresh, and it has the gameplay to warrant consideration.
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From the time limit you have set I'd have to agree about:

Terra Mystica
Tzolk'in

and I would also say:

Troyes
Orleans
Trajan
Lewis & Clark
La Granja
7 Wonders
Snowdonia
Polis: Fight for the Hegemony
Baseball Highlights 2045
Keyflower
Targi
Patchwork
7 Wonders: Duel
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Keyflower seems very likely, but I would like it to be Dominant Species.
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BattleLore (Second Edition)
Trajan
Blood Rage
Cyclades (i would also add but it just misses out at 2009)
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Robert Wesley
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Mabuchi wrote:


Heopefully we never see a Nexus Ops again!

Through the Ages might. It is easy enough to make fan made cards to keep it fresh, and it has the gameplay to warrant consideration.
wow ~"1,2GIGAOPSUS NEXT!"
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Love Letter - I don't think I've come across a game as mechanically perfect.
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These things are always hard to predict, but I'd put a little money on Hanabi having legs.
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I think due to their accessibility, innovation, and popularity these games will still be well respected:

T.I.M.E Stories

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game

Mysterium

Dead of Winter: A Crossroads Game

Just my two cents.
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These will still be popular, and the standards against which new games 10 years from now will be judged.

Mage Knight Board Game 2011
I think is really a modern classic.

Eclipse 2011
I don't think is going anywhere.

Love Letter 2012
I agree with the above. Nearly a perfect game. Works with gamers and non-gamers alike.

There are others that I think will stand the test of time for ME, but I don't know how widespread they will be in 10 years.

The Ares Project
Great 2 player game with enormous replayability.

Galaxy Defenders
Wonderful Campaign Solo/Co-op

Spyrium
Innovative worker placement by the creator of Caylus. Can't go wrong here.
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Mythologem wrote:
GROGnads wrote:

... which is MMP 2007 (But I agree with you, at least for the grogs, I know!)

And I'd relaunch with (2010+):

- The US Civil War (2015) for merging (almost...) the old VG's TCW with Herman's FTP (...but those leaders with a clocked death, uhm...)

- Twilight Struggle (Italian deluxe was 2011) because you know, it's the most non-wargame played as a wargame by non-wargamers around (if that makes sense!)

- Fire in the Lake (2014) because all we love the smell of napalm in the morning

- Empire of the Sun 2nd (2015) because it's the PTO, period

- Paths of Glory 4th (2010) because it showed that yes, a playable WW1 can be done

Off the top of my head...


3/5 of these are reprints. Surely there have been other war games of note in recent years. C'mon Grogs I know you can do better! (Plus I genuinely want to hear about modern classic war games)
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lastcastlegames wrote:
Love Letter - I don't think I've come across a game as mechanically perfect.

I don't think you've come across man games then!
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eckswyezed wrote:
Mythologem wrote:
GROGnads wrote:

... which is MMP 2007 (But I agree with you, at least for the grogs, I know!)

And I'd relaunch with (2010+):

- The US Civil War (2015) for merging (almost...) the old VG's TCW with Herman's FTP (...but those leaders with a clocked death, uhm...)

- Twilight Struggle (Italian deluxe was 2011) because you know, it's the most non-wargame played as a wargame by non-wargamers around (if that makes sense!)

- Fire in the Lake (2014) because all we love the smell of napalm in the morning

- Empire of the Sun 2nd (2015) because it's the PTO, period

- Paths of Glory 4th (2010) because it showed that yes, a playable WW1 can be done

Off the top of my head...


3/5 of these are reprints. Surely there have been other war games of note in recent years. C'mon Grogs I know you can do better! (Plus I genuinely want to hear about modern classic war games)

1) If they reprinted it, there's a good chance that's because it's a good game; I think Twilight Struggle is still GMT's best seller with ~70,000 copies and counting (normal print is ~1/10th lower), and for many people the one and only "wargame" (?!) ever. Not including TS in the list of classics because the original (non-deluxe mind you!) was 2005 is a stretch to me... and that lead us to the point #2:

2) For wargames a reprint doesn't usually mean "more of the same": there could be a mounted map (instead of the original paper), sturdy brown-core chits, revised rules and/or cards (for a CDG): Wilderness War 1st ed. had a simple rules core with many optional rules, then later ed. incorporated all the optionals into core; WW2:Barbarossa to Berlin changed a lot between 1st (mediocre) and 2nd (nice), tweaking rules and cards; Empire of the Sun changed way a lot, with many many improvements even in vital areas like victory conditions.

So the classic is the refined, stable & "matured" product imho.

(And see, for example, I believe For the People 2015 ed. is still the same as the 2006 ed. so I've not included it for that reason... or A House Divided 2012 ed. is somewhat worse than 2001 ed. and so on).

3) Wargames don't come cheap. The "masterpiece" seal (and see how personal it is) must stand the test of time.
Unconditional Surrender! (2014) to me is plain genious, numberless counters, but a classic? We have a plethora of ETOs...
Waterloo 1815 Fallen Eagles (2015) is really good, but a classic? That would be Napoleon's Last Battles campaign for my taste... which is 1995.
We don't have many age of sail games and Flying Colors (2010 2nd) does fleet actions quite interestingly, but a classic? I've heard they even dropped Manpower damage lately... the true classic is still Wooden Ships & Iron Men for many reasons... which is 1981.

I think you got my point.


(Obviously point #4 is that maybe there are other great titles out there that I'm not aware of, or that I don't remember now...)
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I don't think Terra Mystica will be. I don't see the "classic" in it, there's just too much stuff jammed into the box. I slag it off daily becuase of that, but won't deny it's popular now. Amongst other games though, I think this will cause it to fade.

Caverna should be. Lots in the box, but in a consistent mechanical direction

Pandemic
Eclipse
Robinson Crusoe

Patchwork?
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Brett B
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+1 Love Letter

...and by 2025 you'll have fifty rethemes to pick from.
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:

Pandemic
Eclipse
Robinson Crusoe

Patchwork?


Pandemic is 2008, friend. Everything else checks out. Thanks!
 
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sthrjo wrote:
In [article=21599500]this followup[/article] you can see my list of "cult of the Old", games, with Risk at the top, for obvious staying power through new editions and reimplementations, like Risk Legacy.
So the answer to the original post are games that are prone to new editions and reimplementations, but still recognizable. I think Terra Mystica is obvious, furthermore any top rated game from publishing year 2012 since many games are highly rated, more so than the years around it. 2014 is the new king of publishing year, though.
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Moreover, I consider that Fakirs should be buffed and Darklings nerfed.


Fantastic analysis on that other thread, Henrik. Thanks for sharing.

My question is a little more "speculative". Based on your experience of the games that you've played, which ones would be well-remembered in future. You may be spot on about the 2012 and 2014 releases, but I'd love to see names named.

In other words, there is no "right" answer and you cannot use data to back your answer up - because that data won't exist until 2025.
 
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Robinson Crusoe
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Keyflower and Concordia, which I'm honestly surprised hasn't been mentioned.
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I have a feeling that Love Letter (and the inevitable re-themes) will have replaced Uno as a quick go-to filler for a lot of casual gamers. Most non-gamers are just starting to hear about it, but in about 10 years, it's gonna be all over the place.
 
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Here are my thoughts:

It's a gamer's market. That means it's going to be increasingly difficult for games to have the kind of staying power you describe. Part of the problem is that the market is saturated, and publishers are still really small. So, even if a game has already begun to prove its popularity, There isn't the same sense of calm that I can find a certain game in a few years time.

Even games like Troyes, Carson City -- both highly-regarded -- were out of print for a long time. And then, when they do come back into print, it's for a one-off "big box" Kicksarter limited edition version, or something like that. People who want the game are going to get it. But for the rest of us who didn't, we'll never know because it won't be available to purchase once we discover it.

There used to be fewer games being put out in previous years. If you ask me, the reason why classic games are "classic", it's not only because they were mechanically sound and good, fun games, but also because the proverbial pond size was a lot smaller.

Just my two cents.
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I think some people need a bit of a reality check. Most of the games mentioned thus far are much too niche to be widely discussed in 2025. Most of these titles will be near or completely forgotten by then.

Tzolk'in, Snowdonia, Targi, Orleans, La Granja, Pollis, Patchwork, Cyclades, Trajan, Mysterium, Spyrium, Robinson Crusoe, Eclipse, etc. NONE of these will have wide appeal in 2025. There may be a few people here and there still playing them, and some of these are good games. But none of these had wide enough appeal to last that long. It was much easier for titles 10, 15, or 20 years ago to grow those types of legs because there wasn't as many titles to choose from. Now, there are just too many titles being printed. And publishers are not willing to give any of them the attention that is required to generate staying power.

The only games that might still be around are easy to teach games that will fit a very broad audience. Linko! is an example. Games like Sushi Go also have a chance because you can find titles in popular department stores and people are buying them there.
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