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Subject: Battlestations 2.0 - what's the MSRP on the $90 pledge? rss

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Josh B
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Apologies if this has already been queried, but what's the MSRP on the $90 pledge? The Kickstarter page seems to suggest it's $100, but if that's the case, I'm struggling with the economics of paying 107% of MSRP (i.e., $90 + the extra $17 for shipping) a year before release, especially given the lack of exclusives. Why not just wait until release and pay ~$70 from a retailer that offers free shipping?


Big fan of Battlestations and sincerely want to pledge, just struggling to make the numbers work.
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Michael Matecha
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Why pledge a kickstarter for a great game made by a great guy who makes games because he loves games?

-To assure it reaches funding and gets published.
-To give Jeff the profits instead of an online retailer.
-To do something worthwhile with your time and money helping good people bring a good game to life that you can enjoy.
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UA Darth
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Fallow wrote:
Why pledge a kickstarter for a great game made by a great guy who makes games because he loves games?

-To assure it reaches funding and gets published.
-To give Jeff the profits instead of an online retailer.
-To do something worthwhile with your time and money helping good people bring a good game to life that you can enjoy.


To be fair, it is already funded, so that is not a reason. Pushing for the upgrades from stretch goals could be one.

Points 2 and 3 are essentially the same.

So, the only reason is to give more money directly to the creator or for stretch goals to be reached.
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Rob Koch
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If you can you should back it at whatever level you feel comfortable. Since you're a fan of Battlestations you know what the fan base is like. Backing now, however you can, helps ensure that when you can get the full version it will be chocked full of the most goodies possible for everyone and you won't miss anything if you can't.

Exclusives are nice (backing gets you access to the new tile art BTW) but I've recently been turned off by campaigns that offer exclusives to the point that you have to mortgage your house to get everything that will only be available for a short time.

Again, this is my opinion and contents may have settled during typing.

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Michael Matecha
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This isnt some huge company using kickstarter solely as a preorder system, Jeff wants to get us the best game with the best components possible and he doesn't have deep pockets to print 2500 copies and hope they sell.

For kickstarters from CMON etc SURE I look at getting the best price
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UA Darth
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Fallow wrote:
This isnt some huge company using kickstarter solely as a preorder system, Jeff wants to get us the best game with the best components possible and he doesn't have deep pockets to print 2500 copies and hope they sell.

For kickstarters from CMON etc SURE I look at getting the best price


Do keep in mind that the game with everything is $150 including shipping. I could understand someone wanting to get any discount they can. Not everyone could afford it. Some people can save up for that in the future though and get a discount, and eventually get it. There is nothing wrong with that.
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Rob Koch
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shadow9d9 wrote:
Fallow wrote:
This isnt some huge company using kickstarter solely as a preorder system, Jeff wants to get us the best game with the best components possible and he doesn't have deep pockets to print 2500 copies and hope they sell.

For kickstarters from CMON etc SURE I look at getting the best price


Do keep in mind that the game with everything is $150 including shipping. I could understand someone wanting to get any discount they can. Not everyone could afford it. Some people can save up for that in the future though and get a discount, and eventually get it. There is nothing wrong with that.


Fully agree with all of these. For me the timing is such that I can only get in at Ensign (USD $20) level now. But that gives me almost a year to save up to get a full set + extra miniatures when they are available!
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Brook Gentlestream
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Also, if you back, you get a personalized, made for you, heartfelt thank you message from Jeff. Good luck getting that from your online retailer.




(For me, that taught me a valuable lesson in class. There's not many kickstarter projects where I can say I learned a valuable life lesson.)
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UA Darth
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lordrahvin wrote:
Also, if you back, you get a personalized, made for you, heartfelt thank you message from Jeff. Good luck getting that from your online retailer.




(For me, that taught me a valuable lesson in class. There's not many kickstarter projects where I can say I learned a valuable life lesson.)


What lesson was that?
 
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Jeff Siadek
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As a publisher, designer, and fan, I'm trying to skate a few very thin lines here and I appreciate the support the community has given me both monetarily and personally.

Here are the issues I'm trying to balance.

1. Make Battlestations a great game in every sense of the word. I want the physical presentation of it to be as professional and useful as possible. I also want the community to grow. I think Battlestations should be played at every convention regardless of whether I'm there.

2. Make the fans happy. As long as I get #1 done, the fans will be happy. There may be a few who grumble that they liked the old art and the smaller modules. They can use the new book or a pdf of it to play and they'll be fine.

3. Run a successful business. This is my day job. If I can't manage to take in 6 figures on a kickstarter and turn out a high quality game at a modest profit then I'm going to have to find something else to do as a profession and that will mean the future Battlestations expansions will be delayed at best.

4. A big part of #3 is maintaining my relationship with the distribution channels so that everybody who wants Battlestations in the future can get it easily. If I discount the game, I run the risk of alienating the distributors and retailers who I rely on for 80% of my non-kickstarter sales for not just Battlestations but all of my games.

Toward that end, I don't want to do kickstarter exclusives other than a modest price discount because I don't want to alienate the fans. I've heard many people complain that they feel cheated that there was a kickstarter exclusive that they missed out on. Ultimately, I want Battlestations (and Gorilla Games) to be an ongoing concern that doesn't maximize sales at the expense of the fans.

I just realized that I numbered these goals but really they all interact. If I can't make great stuff and get it to the fans at a reasonable price, I'm not going to be making anybody happy. This is my first time doing plastic miniatures so I'm both cautious about not overcommitting and excited about being able to provide more.

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UA Darth
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I appreciate the response.

I completely agree on forgoing exclusives. The only exclusives that I find acceptable are those that are made available for purchase after.

I stumbled on this game the other day here on one of the crowdfunding geeklists here. Shocked I've never stumbled upon this game after all my years here. I plan to buy the game upon release. Just been spending too much lately to spend another 150 at the moment.
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Greg Frank
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Fallow wrote:
Why pledge a kickstarter for a great game made by a great guy who makes games because he loves games?

-To assure it reaches funding and gets published.
-To give Jeff the profits instead of an online retailer.
-To do something worthwhile with your time and money helping good people bring a good game to life that you can enjoy.


I agree with the above. Part of it is to show Jeff your support of his game and project, giving him money directly to help produce, publish and make the best game possible. Yes it is has hit it's goal and more, but that doesn't mean that more money towards publishing it, isn't going to help, if anything it will help improve print quality and deal with unforeseen production problems or expenses. Which can happen.

as for 70 dollars plus free shipping that isn't likely. The MSRP for the core game is 100 dollars, so an online store might sell it for 70. Most online stores require 100 dollars to get free shipping. So either you pay 70 dollars plus shipping which makes it close to 100. maybe 83-90 dollars without tax, add in tax and it is close. Then if you want to get the advance rules, it would be 50 dollars possibly discounted to 40. So 70+40 is 110 plus tax from where you are which is a huge range but in California it is 9&, which comes to 9.90 more round up to 10 to make the math easier, so that would be complete game with advance rules for a total of 120.

That will go to a store (if you are buying from a FLGS, they yay, if it is online then ok). But you could pay 125 Plus shipping 17 dollars , you are looking at 142 dollars. So it really is only a 22 dollar difference. I am guess on the online price based on other games but it could be a bit more.

So for me, it is easy, would rather help out Jeff, for others it is understandable they might want to wait. But to wait just to save 22 dollars, doesn't seem to be worth waiting if you are on the fence about purchasing it.
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UA Darth
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gf_ripper wrote:
Fallow wrote:
Why pledge a kickstarter for a great game made by a great guy who makes games because he loves games?

-To assure it reaches funding and gets published.
-To give Jeff the profits instead of an online retailer.
-To do something worthwhile with your time and money helping good people bring a good game to life that you can enjoy.


I agree with the above. Part of it is to show Jeff your support of his game and project, giving him money directly to help produce, publish and make the best game possible. Yes it is has hit it's goal and more, but that doesn't mean that more money towards publishing it, isn't going to help, if anything it will help improve print quality and deal with unforeseen production problems or expenses. Which can happen.

as for 70 dollars plus free shipping that isn't likely. The MSRP for the core game is 100 dollars, so an online store might sell it for 70. Most online stores require 100 dollars to get free shipping. So either you pay 70 dollars plus shipping which makes it close to 100. maybe 83-90 dollars without tax, add in tax and it is close. Then if you want to get the advance rules, it would be 50 dollars possibly discounted to 40. So 70+40 is 110 plus tax from where you are which is a huge range but in California it is 9&, which comes to 9.90 more round up to 10 to make the math easier, so that would be complete game with advance rules for a total of 120.

That will go to a store (if you are buying from a FLGS, they yay, if it is online then ok). But you could pay 125 Plus shipping 17 dollars , you are looking at 142 dollars. So it really is only a 22 dollar difference. I am guess on the online price based on other games but it could be a bit more.

So for me, it is easy, would rather help out Jeff, for others it is understandable they might want to wait. But to wait just to save 22 dollars, doesn't seem to be worth waiting if you are on the fence about purchasing it.


A lot of this is incorrect.

$100 games go on sale for 60 or less all the time. Imperial assault was just on sale for 59 at csi. Also, the $50 would be discounted to near 35. Add them together, you almost have enough for free shipping thresholds. Additionally, whether bought with kickstarter or anywhere else online, if they don't collect taxes, you are still required to declare this.

This is a $50 savings.
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Josh B
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Jeff - appreciate the thoughts and candor. Certainly agree there are a lot of competing factors and sounds like you guys are doing your best to balance them accordingly. Obviously other kickstarters have balanced those considerations in different ways, but I respect your approach and look forward to seeing the fruits of your labor.

That being said, I'm personally going to sit the Kickstarter out--if the price was roughly equivalent to what I'd pay at an OLGS, I'd strongly consider tying the money up for a year by backing now. But the significant extra cost and lack of exclusives makes backing now feel, to me, like a charitable contribution (and unfortunately have too many real charities with desperate needs vying for attention at any given time). Acknowledge this is an unpopular perspective but just wanted to share for your own edification on this and future projects.
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Freelance Police
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The $90 pledge comes with the advanced rulebook in PDF form. Depending on how you value PDFs, this means up to $45 of additional value. Same with the 3D print files -- if you don't have a 3D printer, they're not going to be of any use for you! Also, I've seen MSRP's change from KS to retail, and the game may also be more expensive overseas. If you click on Community, 35% of backers are overseas.

Still, if you buy retail, you're still supporting Gorilla Games and telling retailers and distributors that KS is *not* a threat to their sales. And go buy other fine Gorilla Games, like Monster Derby, Lifeboat, and Who Would Win? meeple
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Mark Mitchell
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My reason to back is to increase the chance of unlocking more stretch goals. Although my contribution might be small ($125), every penny helps towards creating an even better game for everyone!

If everyone just looked purely at the cost and decided to wait for the final retail game it wouldn't be anywhere near as impressive. I don't mind throwing an extra £10-£20 into the pot if it means the final game I get will be that much better for me as well as everyone else, backer or not.
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kalvin connor
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I would love to support Jeff. He seemed like a great guy on onboardgames. However, I just dont feel like letting $125 go unmatured for such a great length of time. If the project was to be in say September, I would back it today. So instead, I will wait till retail since the stretch goals are not enticing to me
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Jeff Siadek
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I look forward to retail sales, too!

Backing now during the kickstarter pumps up the numbers and draws more attention which builds the community. Of course getting the money now and knowing we can afford stretch goal stuff is important but the main goal of this project is to build the community. That means I want everybody to feel welcome to participate at whatever level they can whenever they want.

My biggest failing these last 12 years has been not getting the word out. The fact that the campaign is well over $100k is an important tool. I know I think twice when I hear about a big project. Even if we made it to a million dollars we'd miss some people. We'll play it at cons and in homes. We'll play online and chat on BGG. (That was me doing my best Winston Churchill "fight them on the beaches speech...").

Eventually, everybody who wants to crew a starship will have the opportunity.
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Joey V

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And now it is on Tabletop Simulator which is a whole new potential audience.


ourhero wrote:
I look forward to retail sales, too!

Backing now during the kickstarter pumps up the numbers and draws more attention which builds the community. Of course getting the money now and knowing we can afford stretch goal stuff is important but the main goal of this project is to build the community. That means I want everybody to feel welcome to participate at whatever level they can whenever they want.

My biggest failing these last 12 years has been not getting the word out. The fact that the campaign is well over $100k is an important tool. I know I think twice when I hear about a big project. Even if we made it to a million dollars we'd miss some people. We'll play it at cons and in homes. We'll play online and chat on BGG. (That was me doing my best Winston Churchill "fight them on the beaches speech...").

Eventually, everybody who wants to crew a starship will have the opportunity.
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