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Subject: Deckbuilders/Tableau Builders with a similar feel for 4+ rss

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Eric Ziegeweid
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As I've said before in other threads... I LOVE BH2045... completely and immoderately.

I've now played four extended multiple-world-series gaming sessions with friends from different gamer communities (Scrabble, D&D, Trivia) and each of those sessions were memorable and deeply satisfying and each friend loved the game regardless of their gaming preferences and affinity for baseball.

I've ordered all the additional starter teams (on sale at www.eaglegames.net until the end of the month) in preparation for hosting my first tournament in early March.

Since I am going to have a bunch of gamers all in one place, I am wondering if fellow BH2045ers have any ideas or opinions about multiplayer games that have similar qualities. I am not looking for exact replicas, just something along the lines of building and refining a deck, deploying those decks, building and refining again.

Some things I think may fit what I'm looking for include both Deck / Pool Building and Tableau Building games:

Race for the Galaxy (I have this, but have only played 2 player)
Seasons
Evolution
Imperial Settlers
Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game
Deus

Opinions on these, other suggestions, comparisons with BH2045 all welcome.
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Ralph H. Anderson
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Eric,

Thanks for the kind words! I am glad you are enjoying the game!

Good luck with finding similar game experiences. You are in the right place asking the right people!

Ralph

Go Wiffle!
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Ken B.
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Eric, like you I enjoy Baseball Highlights: 2045 very much. It achieves something I never thought a light baseball game could--the feeling of an honest-to-goodness World Series in roughly an hour of play.

As to your question, I also have been a big deckbuilding fan. The trick is, that I like them for different reasons. I don't want to give you bad advice, so I will just list a few of my favorites, and why. (There are in no particular order.)


1. Core Worlds - I think, based on your description of what you enjoy and are looking for, that this may be the best fit for you in terms of a deckbuilder to expand you experience. The idea is that you're building your deck that is a collection of actions, ships, troops, and heroes. As you make you way inward, you'll face much more powerful challenges and you'll need to make sure you're ready for them with some advance planning. Tense Action/Resource management also makes each play challenging.


2. Nightfall - As a Magic player, this is the deckbuilder that appeals to me most as a similar experience. As the game goes on you'll look for synergies between minion types but more importantly use the chain system to smartly play off what your opponents do and get more bang for your buck on your turn. It's a very rare deckbuilder in that you are fully involved on each player's turn, as each card play can potentially give you opportunities to play and respond. It's very combat heavy, very much in the Magic sense in that regard, so if you have any history there, you'll feel right at home.


3. Puzzle Strike - Uses chips instead of cards and simulates the puzzle video game battles of games like Super Puzzle Fighter. What's unique is every character has a selection of three chips, so no two of them play the same. What works well for the character Setsuki, for example, may be a disaster for Midori. You're battling and interacting with other players all while trying to harness and master the abilities of the character you're playing.


4. Ascension - Good, solid deckbuilder. Need to balance two kinds of currency, one for purchasing cards, the other for defeating monsters that pop up. It's such a solid system that it's been aped by Cryptozoic's many deckbuilders as well as Star Realms and Cthulhu Realms. And if you're unsure about it, it has one of the best board/card game iOS implementations around in my opinion.

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Eric Ziegeweid
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franklincobb wrote:
Eric, like you I enjoy Baseball Highlights: 2045 very much. It achieves something I never thought a light baseball game could--the feeling of an honest-to-goodness World Series in roughly an hour of play.

As to your question, I also have been a big deckbuilding fan. The trick is, that I like them for different reasons. I don't want to give you bad advice, so I will just list a few of my favorites, and why. (There are in no particular order.)


1. Core Worlds - I think, based on your description of what you enjoy and are looking for, that this may be the best fit for you in terms of a deckbuilder to expand you experience. The idea is that you're building your deck that is a collection of actions, ships, troops, and heroes. As you make you way inward, you'll face much more powerful challenges and you'll need to make sure you're ready for them with some advance planning. Tense Action/Resource management also makes each play challenging.


2. Nightfall - As a Magic player, this is the deckbuilder that appeals to me most as a similar experience. As the game goes on you'll look for synergies between minion types but more importantly use the chain system to smartly play off what your opponents do and get more bang for your buck on your turn. It's a very rare deckbuilder in that you are fully involved on each player's turn, as each card play can potentially give you opportunities to play and respond. It's very combat heavy, very much in the Magic sense in that regard, so if you have any history there, you'll feel right at home.


3. Puzzle Strike - Uses chips instead of cards and simulates the puzzle video game battles of games like Super Puzzle Fighter. What's unique is every character has a selection of three chips, so no two of them play the same. What works well for the character Setsuki, for example, may be a disaster for Midori. You're battling and interacting with other players all while trying to harness and master the abilities of the character you're playing.


4. Ascension - Good, solid deckbuilder. Need to balance two kinds of currency, one for purchasing cards, the other for defeating monsters that pop up. It's such a solid system that it's been aped by Cryptozoic's many deckbuilders as well as Star Realms and Cthulhu Realms. And if you're unsure about it, it has one of the best board/card game iOS implementations around in my opinion.



Ken, thanks for this great response.

Core Worlds wasn't on my radar before - but I am really intrigued by the 'thinky' gameplay I've seen suggested in several reviews - seems like a well-constructed balance between strategy and tactics. I think your instincts are dead on - this is the game on your list I am most likely to track down and try out for the tournament. It has a little of the feel of RFTG too, and my primary RFTG gaming buddy will be there.

Nightfall is also new to me - looks like it has a very affordable iOS version with expansion, so I'm going to try it out tonight. My wife is an old Magic and Jyhad/Vampire veteran so I'm going to see if I can get her interested too.

I was deeply hooked on Ascension for iOS for quite a while, and I still think it is great; I get re-hooked periodically. There are so many expansions that I have been reluctant to take it out of the virtual world and invest in the cardboard version. That box doesn't look big enough to live in

And Ascension got me interested in Puzzle Strike - sweet that I can give that a go on iOS now too.
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David Goulette
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I am just getting into BH:2045. I agree that it is a great game. My wife and I happen to be big baseball fans so that helps. But I am glad to hear that you have had success with introducing this to non-baseball fans.

As for your question, some suggestions:

I really love San Juan as a Tableau builder that is fun for board game geeks like me but very approachable to a wide audience. Also, it isn't that expensive to pick up. It's much easier to teach to casual/non gamers than, say, roll for the galaxy or race for the galaxy.

Also, 7-wonders is a favorite tableau builder that is good for a gaming night with mixed company (gamers, casual gamers, non gamers that are willing to learn, etc). But 7-wonders can take a bit of effort to teach the first time through if somebody doesn't have much/any modern board gaming experience. But it scales well for larger player counts since it is a drafting game and everybody takes there turn simultaneously.

As for deck builders, I don't mean to state the obvious and likely controversial suggestion, but Dominion is good with a group since people can take different sets of 10 kingdom cards and play simultaneous games in parallel. (I like dominion with 2 or 3 players.)

Just my thoughts. Have fun!
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Byron S
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I haven't played BH2045 yet (though I'd like to), but I have played Seasons and Imperial Settlers, and Evolution is one of my favorite games. None of those three particularly fit your description of "just something along the lines of building and refining a deck, deploying those decks, building and refining again."

Seasons has card drafting to start the game, but only 9 cards, and they're only played once (usually.)

Evolution is all about building your tableau of species, but the cards you get in order to do that are gained by random draw each turn, so there's no deck-planning.

Imperial Settlers probably fits your description a little better, but the civilization decks are pre-built, and you draw randomly from them on your turns. How you choose to use the cards and how you interact with the other players is what the game's all about.
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Eric Ziegeweid
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anaturalharmonic wrote:
I am just getting into BH:2045. I agree that it is a great game. My wife and I happen to be big baseball fans so that helps. But I am glad to hear that you have had success with introducing this to non-baseball fans.

I've introduced it to three people - two are passionate baseball fans but don't have experience with this type of gaming. One is indifferent/borderline hostile to baseball but an experienced gamer. All loved it, but it was the gamer friend who is indifferent to baseball who declared it "perhaps the best 2 player game of all time"!wow


Thanks for your suggestions! I am not a fan of the theme, but I picked up San Juan as an app when it was on sale. I haven't devoted much time to it yet - hard to squeeze in time for another app when I am obsessed with the BH2045 app shake


Ooh, 7 Wonders - I was going to include this in my original post but forgot. I have a good feeling about it with this group.


Dominion has always interested me, but as with Ascension I am a little intimidated by the sheer volume of expansions. Then again, I did shell out for BH2045 Super Deluxe and the Starter Teams without blinking an eye.

 
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Eric Ziegeweid
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runtsta wrote:
I haven't played BH2045 yet (though I'd like to), but I have played Seasons and Imperial Settlers, and Evolution is one of my favorite games. None of those three particularly fit your description of "just something along the lines of building and refining a deck, deploying those decks, building and refining again."


Byron, thanks for breaking those games down for me. I'd like to try all of them at some point, but it is good to know they may be a bit far from the BH2045 experience.

I am most interested in Evolution out of those three - love that your species can interact with and respond to your opponents' species. But I didn't know that the mechanism for evolving your species was so random. I need to watch a playthrough to understand how this works.
 
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David Goulette
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reynard wrote:
anaturalharmonic wrote:
I am just getting into BH:2045. I agree that it is a great game. My wife and I happen to be big baseball fans so that helps. But I am glad to hear that you have had success with introducing this to non-baseball fans.

I've introduced it to three people - two are passionate baseball fans but don't have experience with this type of gaming. One is indifferent/borderline hostile to baseball but an experienced gamer. All loved it, but it was the gamer friend who is indifferent to baseball who declared it "perhaps the best 2 player game of all time"!wow

Very cool!

reynard wrote:

Thanks for your suggestions! I am not a fan of the theme, but I picked up San Juan as an app when it was on sale. I haven't devoted much time to it yet - hard to squeeze in time for another app when I am obsessed with the BH2045 app shake

Haha. So little time... so many games! I have found that San Juan is cool because the game is approachable right on the first play, but it is also one of those games that gets better with multiple plays as you start to find buildings that combo in ways you will not see at first. Most games with depth are complex to learn, and most games that are easy to learn have little depth.

reynard wrote:

Ooh, 7 Wonders - I was going to include this in my original post but forgot. I have a good feeling about it with this group.


Dominion has always interested me, but as with Ascension I am a little intimidated by the sheer volume of expansions. Then again, I did shell out for BH2045 Super Deluxe and the Starter Teams without blinking an eye.



If you ever go the Dominion route, you DO NOT need to buy all of the expansions. After you buy the base set I personally recommend:
1) Seaside
2) Prosperity
3) Intrigue

These expansions can be added in any order and in my opinion they are by far the best. The meat of the game can be found in these. The other cards in other expansions are (in my opinion) hit-or-miss on many cards. They either feel like "more of the same" or they add some mechanic/rule that doesn't seem needed. (Just my two cents.)



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Byron S
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reynard wrote:
runtsta wrote:
I haven't played BH2045 yet (though I'd like to), but I have played Seasons and Imperial Settlers, and Evolution is one of my favorite games. None of those three particularly fit your description of "just something along the lines of building and refining a deck, deploying those decks, building and refining again."


Byron, thanks for breaking those games down for me. I'd like to try all of them at some point, but it is good to know they may be a bit far from the BH2045 experience.

I am most interested in Evolution out of those three - love that your species can interact with and respond to your opponents' species. But I didn't know that the mechanism for evolving your species was so random. I need to watch a playthrough to understand how this works.

The cards are all multi-use, so you can always do something beneficial for your species, but if you're looking for a specific trait for a species, you may be disappointed. The game is all about being flexible and reacting to both your card draw and the abilities of the other species on the board.

Anyway, if you want to learn more, just ask on the Evolution forums and one of us fans there will answer any and all questions you have.

Hopefully I'll be able to play BH2045 soon and be able to contribute more here as well
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Ive played most of the games suggested thus far, and I'd second the recommendations for Puzzle Strike - as a competitive deckbuilder i think it's without peer (including BH2045, and i am a massive fan of that).

on top of that Imperial Settlers, Arctic Scavengers, Seasons and BB:TM will all scratch the itch very nicely.
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Adam P
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Xenon Profiteer

Highly recommend this little gem!

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see you mentioned 4+ player. This one's 2-4 player.
 
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Eric Ziegeweid
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Chappy_Sinclair wrote:


Xenon Profiteer

Highly recommend this little gem!

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see you mentioned 4+ player. This one's 2-4 player.


No problem, 4 works and I've never heard of this before, so thanks!
 
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Eric Ziegeweid
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skatingtortoise wrote:
Ive played most of the games suggested thus far, and I'd second the recommendations for Puzzle Strike - as a competitive deckbuilder i think it's without peer (including BH2045, and i am a massive fan of that).

on top of that Imperial Settlers, Arctic Scavengers, Seasons and BB:TM will all scratch the itch very nicely.


Thanks for mentioning Arctic Scavengers... it's one I had been wondering about.
 
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