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Subject: Yet another Name That Game thread! rss

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Daniel Newman
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I know you guys love it, here we go

I just signed my game Enemy Anemone to a publisher, who loves the game but wants to change the theme and the name. We need to find a name that's just as awesome but fits the new theme.

Players are Indiana Jones -style treasure hunters. It's a trick-taking game at its core, but the highest and lowest cards played get thrown out (the highest springs the trap, the lowest gets there too late to get any treasure) and the rest divide up the loot based on their number played.

What've you got?
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Chris Morse
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I see where the old game doesn't quite fit.

Suggestions:
Treasure Tricks
Trick, Trap, Treasure (or without the commas)


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B C Z
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"Idea Thief" would sum up my understanding of this thread.
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George P.E., PMP, DM
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How many players? I'm not sure "First to Loot" makes sense if there are multiple players grabbing treasure.

(It's) Science Not Theft
(Tricky) Tomblifters
(Tricky) Excavators
(Tricky) Paleologists
Tricky Troves
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Mads Fløe
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Daniel Newman
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byronczimmer wrote:
"Idea Thief" would sum up my understanding of this thread.


I've seen you comment on other threads here in a similar manner. I think you may misunderstand the point of these forums and this community. We're here to support each other and some of that is sharing ideas. Nobody making games is making much money and we're all just enthusiastic participants. If you don't want to help, that's fine. Nobody's forcing you to join in.

EDIT:

And honestly, I see this more as a way to kickstart brainstorming on my part than anything else.
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Jeff Saxton
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YACTTAG

"Yet Another Card Trick-Taking Adventure Game"
 
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Daniel Newman
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GeorgeMo wrote:
How many players? I'm not sure "First to Loot" makes sense if there are multiple players grabbing treasure.

(It's) Science Not Theft
(Tricky) Tomblifters
(Tricky) Excavators
(Tricky) Paleologists
Tricky Troves


3-8 players, all but the first and last get treasure
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Evan Youngblood
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petrix wrote:
I know you guys love it, here we go

I just signed my game Enemy Anemone to a publisher, who loves the game but wants to change the theme and the name. We need to find a name that's just as awesome but fits the new theme.

Players are Indiana Jones -style treasure hunters. It's a trick-taking game at its core, but the highest and lowest cards played get thrown out (the highest springs the trap, the lowest gets there too late to get any treasure) and the rest divide up the loot based on their number played.

What've you got?


The Second Mouse

As in "The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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Andrew Busam
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After You

Loot Pursuit

All Troves in Moderation
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Andrew
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ambusam wrote:
After You


I like After You as well.
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Scott Mullins
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petrix wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
"Idea Thief" would sum up my understanding of this thread.


I've seen you comment on other threads here in a similar manner. I think you may misunderstand the point of these forums and this community. We're here to support each other and some of that is sharing ideas. Nobody making games is making much money and we're all just enthusiastic participants. If you don't want to help, that's fine. Nobody's forcing you to join in.

EDIT:

And honestly, I see this more as a way to kickstart brainstorming on my part than anything else.


Good for you...Hell, I'll buy your game based on this one post no matter what you call it.
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Stephanie Prince
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Loot or Lose
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Justin R
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Temper Temptation
 
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Daniel Newman
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ambusam wrote:
After You

Loot Pursuit

All Troves in Moderation


After You and Loot Pursuit are definite contenders!
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Sicaria Occaeco
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Indlana Jones and the Last Card of Doom
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Scott Coggins
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- Raiders of the Ancient
- Of Gem & Gold
- The Lost Curio
- Traps & Troves
 
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Quote:
I just signed my game Enemy Anemone to a publisher, who loves the game but wants to change the theme and the name. We need to find a name that's just as awesome but fits the new theme.


petrix wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
"Idea Thief" would sum up my understanding of this thread.


I've seen you comment on other threads here in a similar manner. I think you may misunderstand the point of these forums and this community. We're here to support each other and some of that is sharing ideas. Nobody making games is making much money and we're all just enthusiastic participants. If you don't want to help, that's fine. Nobody's forcing you to join in.

EDIT:

And honestly, I see this more as a way to kickstart brainstorming on my part than anything else.


You'll note a difference in my position regarding such threads depending upon how things are presented. In one case someone is working through an idea, presents their own thoughts and asks for additional help or refinement. They are asking others to assist in paring down an idea. That seems fine.

In other cases, they spit out a need and ask for input. They post no original ideas of their own, they are instead attempting to get others to work for them for free. That seems wrong.

In this particular instance, I believe you have a contract *in hand* from a publisher but they don't like your theme/name. Regardless of how much money you are or aren't making, you are still going to be paid for this idea and it's realization - including whatever name is put onto the box, which if you take someone's idea from here, won't be yours anyway. That seems very wrong.

To sum that up:
you've presented your own ideas: Good.
you're NOT being paid: Good.
you've NOT presented your own ideas OR are being paid: Bad.
you've NOT presented your own ideas AND are being paid: Very Bad.


At least this isn't like other threads that are instead thinly veiled Kickstarter advertisements, though if you're with certain publishers, that will indeed be the next step.

Also, I point out that there is another subforum:
https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/1530032/boardgamegeek/design... which is the home for "specific queries to your design". This question would probably be better housed in that area - where at least the purpose is working through specific (instead of general) problems. I'd still say a line gets crossed when payment for labor you aren't performing is involved.

Many publishing houses specifically don't ask for these types of solicitations because someone can later attempt to claim they are owed some form of payment or royalty for contributing to a query as open as this one. It is why many publishers specifically ask developers to NOT send them much more than a synopsis about the game so they can then decide if they want to pursue it based on that information.

If I've misunderstood that the original post is a request for free labor and ideas, please let me know.

All that said - good luck on your endeavor and congratulations on getting an idea to the point of publication - that takes a lot of work and effort. I hope you can call the finished product your own.

Original post:
Quote:
I know you guys love it, here we go

I just signed my game Enemy Anemone to a publisher, who loves the game but wants to change the theme and the name. We need to find a name that's just as awesome but fits the new theme.

Players are Indiana Jones -style treasure hunters. It's a trick-taking game at its core, but the highest and lowest cards played get thrown out (the highest springs the trap, the lowest gets there too late to get any treasure) and the rest divide up the loot based on their number played.

What've you got?
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Daniel Newman
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byronczimmer wrote:
Quote:
I just signed my game Enemy Anemone to a publisher, who loves the game but wants to change the theme and the name. We need to find a name that's just as awesome but fits the new theme.


petrix wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
"Idea Thief" would sum up my understanding of this thread.


I've seen you comment on other threads here in a similar manner. I think you may misunderstand the point of these forums and this community. We're here to support each other and some of that is sharing ideas. Nobody making games is making much money and we're all just enthusiastic participants. If you don't want to help, that's fine. Nobody's forcing you to join in.

EDIT:

And honestly, I see this more as a way to kickstart brainstorming on my part than anything else.


You'll note a difference in my position regarding such threads depending upon how things are presented. In one case someone is working through an idea, presents their own thoughts and asks for additional help or refinement. They are asking others to assist in paring down an idea. That seems fine.

In other cases, they spit out a need and ask for input. They post no original ideas of their own, they are instead attempting to get others to work for them for free. That seems wrong.

In this particular instance, I believe you have a contract *in hand* from a publisher but they don't like your theme/name. Regardless of how much money you are or aren't making, you are still going to be paid for this idea and it's realization - including whatever name is put onto the box, which if you take someone's idea from here, won't be yours anyway. That seems very wrong.

To sum that up:
you've presented your own ideas: Good.
you're NOT being paid: Good.
you've NOT presented your own ideas OR are being paid: Bad.
you've NOT presented your own ideas AND are being paid: Very Bad.


At least this isn't like other threads that are instead thinly veiled Kickstarter advertisements, though if you're with certain publishers, that will indeed be the next step.

Also, I point out that there is another subforum:
https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/1530032/boardgamegeek/design... which is the home for "specific queries to your design". This question would probably be better housed in that area - where at least the purpose is working through specific (instead of general) problems. I'd still say a line gets crossed when payment for labor you aren't performing is involved.

Many publishing houses specifically don't ask for these types of solicitations because someone can later attempt to claim they are owed some form of payment or royalty for contributing to a query as open as this one. It is why many publishers specifically ask developers to NOT send them much more than a synopsis about the game so they can then decide if they want to pursue it based on that information.

If I've misunderstood that the original post is a request for free labor and ideas, please let me know.

All that said - good luck on your endeavor and congratulations on getting an idea to the point of publication - that takes a lot of work and effort. I hope you can call the finished product your own.


You seem to feel very strongly about this, but I disagree with you. If you're playtesting your game and someone suggests a change and you use it, you're not stealing their work. Game design is more than just an idea. Games (if done well) are a collaboration between many individuals.

Starting a brainstorming session by declaring you're coming up blank doesn't make you a thief. If I happen to decide I really like a suggestion here, I'll contact the user who posted it before we decide to use it.
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Scott Coggins
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byronczimmer wrote:
"Idea Thief" would sum up my understanding of this thread.


If someone asks you for an idea, and you give one willingly (as was done in this thread), you aren't stealing the idea. It was offered to you.

We live in an age of information. Nothing is original. Except the duckbill platypus. That guy's legit.
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George P.E., PMP, DM
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radiofyr309 wrote:
If someone asks you for an idea, and you give one willingly (as was done in this thread), you aren't stealing the idea. It was offered to you.


I agree with that.

radiofyr309 wrote:
We live in an age of information. Nothing is original. Except the duckbill platypus. That guy's legit.


I don't agree, that guy copied a duck and a beaver.
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petrix wrote:
You seem to feel very strongly about this, but I disagree with you. If you're playtesting your game and someone suggests a change and you use it, you're not stealing their work. Game design is more than just an idea. Games (if done well) are a collaboration between many individuals.

Starting a brainstorming session by declaring you're coming up blank doesn't make you a thief. If I happen to decide I really like a suggestion here, I'll contact the user who posted it before we decide to use it.


Playtesting is a very different animal. When I Playtest, I tend to set the terms with the Designer up front. If I don't, then I'm volunteering my time/effort because I am enjoying the process and/or trust the Designer. Implicit in the Play Tester arrangement are a non-compete and non-theft of the ideas being worked through. I can suggest changes but not demand them, because it's not my final product. Often I ask questions that potentially cause change. It has generally been a good experience when I get beyond one iteration of "investment".

Usually all I ask for is credit in the Playtester section. If I end up contributing in a material fashion then sometimes the Designer throws me a free copy of the game at the end of the production cycle as a nice gesture. It's not necessarily going to happen - unless it's part of the contract.

And that's my point there. That's a contract, between them and me, and it's unique for each situation. Part of the point of Playtesting is indeed to solicit ideas for the final product.

However, comparing a solicitation for the title of your game to the iterative act of repetitive Playtesting is an apples/oranges argument.

Further, you didn't indicate you were starting a brainstorming session, that would've required you at least start the ball rolling with a few ideas of your own (and perhaps why you had rejected them). Instead the original post jumped straight to asking others for the name that will be printed on the outside of the box of your eventual product.

It's very gracious of you to suggest that you'll contact the user who gives you a name you'd like to use, though I argue that you should have said that in the first place. Of course, that then puts this firmly into the realm of "Spec Work", which I'm very much against because it wastes a whole lot of people's time, both Designer and potential Contributors.

We clearly disagree on this issue, but in the end, I think these types of solicitation hurt the industry as a whole because it's a slippery slope from "I need a free name" to "I need free artwork" or "I need a cover" or other such solicitations, at which point a lot of effort will be expended for one eventual "winner". Instead is seems more ethical to work out the new name within the drawn up contract between you and the Publisher, perhaps hiring (and then paying) another professional who works closely with you to solve the need.

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Jerry
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I get the argument but if people willingly, freely, knowingly are giving suggestions why should anyone care? They are choosing to give.
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Laporbo wrote:
I get the argument but if people willingly, freely, knowingly are giving suggestions why should anyone care? They are choosing to give.


Precisely, and really, no "argument" has really been made other than "that seems wrong" in regards to sharing ideas, which seems inherently right if anything (think of it as a form of intellectual charity). And on a strictly practical level, society would literally grind to a halt if every idea had to be original and ideas couldn't be freely shared.
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petrix wrote:
GeorgeMo wrote:
How many players? I'm not sure "First to Loot" makes sense if there are multiple players grabbing treasure.

(It's) Science Not Theft
(Tricky) Tomblifters
(Tricky) Excavators
(Tricky) Paleologists
Tricky Troves


3-8 players, all but the first and last get treasure

Greed Finishes Last
 
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