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Subject: English edition - how to mix the cards from two stand-alone sets? rss

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Piotr Konieczny
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I haven't played the game yet, but I am now sleeving the cards and I wonder if some are redundant for sleeving. The manual only states that players are "free to mix and match the cards", but would anyone has any suggestions for best practices here? I am also puzzled by the fact that some cards - the Prayer deck, it seems - have card backs specific to the stand-alone edition. According to the game set up, all Prayer cards are shuffled into one deck for the game. Isn't the fact that the back sides are edition-specific, thus one can tell a card belongs to one of the two sets, going to cause problems if they are mixed?
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Arthur Petersen
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Prokonsul Piotrus wrote:
I haven't played the game yet, but I am now sleeving the cards and I wonder if some are redundant for sleeving. The manual only states that players are "free to mix and match the cards", but would anyone has any suggestions for best practices here? I am also puzzled by the fact that some cards - the Prayer deck, it seems - have card backs specific to the stand-alone edition. According to the game set up, all Prayer cards are shuffled into one deck for the game. Isn't the fact that the back sides are edition-specific, thus one can tell a card belongs to one of the two sets, going to cause problems if they are mixed?


Playing with both prayer decks shouldn't affect play - while you can see which edition a card is from, there are plenty which are identical, and there would be no way to know what card someone has just by the back of the card.
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Piotr Konieczny
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Ok. How about the rewards deck? They both consist of 8 cards, but while 5 are identical for both core sets, 3 are individual, so we end up with 16 cards, 5x2 and 6x1. Any thoughts on mixing those?
 
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Sandy Petersen
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The reward cards have identical backs because it doesn't matter if they get mixed together - even if you are only using one prayer deck, the rewards work for both games.
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Piotr Konieczny
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Right, but that's not what I was asking. I meant, how is the game balance affected by having some rewards come up more often then others? Is it better to play with an 11 cards Reward deck (one of each), or a 16 cards (both, including 5 dupes)?
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Piotr Konieczny
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Further thoughts, this time after few plays, while waiting for a developer to bother to respond to questions above.

Since it seems that Prayer and Constellation cards are identical in two sets, it seems that there is no need to sleeve and use both sets of Contellation and Prayer cards; there seems to be enough cards in one set to support a game of 8 players. In other words, once you have one box set, the only added value from the other are the God and Myth cards, and the 2-3 not duplicated reward cards.

It's kind of annoying that we get two stand-alone sets instead of a single one; it seems that the game cost could've been lower without a bunch of duplicated and mostly useless cards/tokens. Sigh.
 
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Piotr Zuchowski
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Prokonsul Piotrus wrote:
Ok. How about the rewards deck? They both consist of 8 cards, but while 5 are identical for both core sets, 3 are individual, so we end up with 16 cards, 5x2 and 6x1. Any thoughts on mixing those?


When you mix two sets to play with 8 players, you need to mix all the components, including the reward decks. You use both decks in full, even the doubled cards.
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Arthur Petersen
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Prokonsul Piotrus wrote:
Further thoughts, this time after few plays, while waiting for a developer to bother to respond to questions above.

Since it seems that Prayer and Constellation cards are identical in two sets, it seems that there is no need to sleeve and use both sets of Contellation and Prayer cards; there seems to be enough cards in one set to support a game of 8 players. In other words, once you have one box set, the only added value from the other are the God and Myth cards, and the 2-3 not duplicated reward cards.

It's kind of annoying that we get two stand-alone sets instead of a single one; it seems that the game cost could've been lower without a bunch of duplicated and mostly useless cards/tokens. Sigh.


Actually, no. The more players you have, the more prayer deck cards you need. If you have both games and only ever play woth 4 players, then you are correct. But if you play with 8, or even 6 players, you will be needing both decks. And they are a little more different than you think.
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Brian M
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existoid wrote:
Prokonsul Piotrus wrote:
Further thoughts, this time after few plays, while waiting for a developer to bother to respond to questions above.

Since it seems that Prayer and Constellation cards are identical in two sets, it seems that there is no need to sleeve and use both sets of Contellation and Prayer cards; there seems to be enough cards in one set to support a game of 8 players. In other words, once you have one box set, the only added value from the other are the God and Myth cards, and the 2-3 not duplicated reward cards.

It's kind of annoying that we get two stand-alone sets instead of a single one; it seems that the game cost could've been lower without a bunch of duplicated and mostly useless cards/tokens. Sigh.


Actually, no. The more players you have, the more prayer deck cards you need. If you have both games and only ever play woth 4 players, then you are correct. But if you play with 8, or even 6 players, you will be needing both decks. And they are a little more different than you think.


So, are the prayer decks different?
If so, what's the best way to use them for a 2-4 player game?
 
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Thomas Diener
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StormKnight wrote:

So, are the prayer decks different?
If so, what's the best way to use them for a 2-4 player game?


Although they have a large number of cards in common, the prayer decks are different.
After an initial look through them:


Unique to Warrior Gods Prayer Deck -------- Unique to Ancient Gods Prayer Deck

---------------------------------Earth---------------------------------
Binding the Spheres -------------------------------- Disruption
Resurrection (2) ----------------------------------- Omnipotence (2)
Sudden Death (2 ------------------------------------ Power Influx

---------------------------------Air---------------------------------
House of Prayer ------------------------------------ Blessing (2)
Unheard Prayers (2) -------------------------------- Power of Faith (2)
Vocation (2) --------------------------------------- Temple of Plenty

---------------------------------Fire---------------------------------
Bending Time -------------------------------------- Kinship (2)
Glorious Death (2) -------------------------------- Peace on Earth
Hatred (2) --------------------------------------- Self Immolation (2)
Revelation (2) ----------------------------------- Single Combat (2)
War Chant (2)

---------------------------------Water---------------------------------
Annihilation ------------------------------------- Amnesia (2)
Inspiration (2) ---------------------------------- Crop Failure (2)
Permission (2) ----------------------------------- Preparation (2)
Trap of Power (2) -------------------------------- Power Drain (2)
Trason (2)


(I suspect I have a few of those incorrect: I have 28/24 uniques?
I made only quick pencil notes and suspect I may have mis-numbered or misnamed a few:
I'll correct those w/ an edit at some point....)

At any rate, the decks are each about 25% unique.
I suspect (with no proof) that the decks are somewhat balanced towards the Pantheons of each respective set,
so I suspect way to use them for a 2-4 player game is "straight out of the box".

I foresee several upcoming threads in the near future that discuss the meta-game of fine-tuning a combination of the two prayer decks for smaller games.
(My initial rumination: 'When the combined deck(s) have a total of six copies of one card, thin that card to four copies (two from each set) for a 4-6 player game'.
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Piotr Zuchowski
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StormKnight wrote:
So, are the prayer decks different?
If so, what's the best way to use them for a 2-4 player game?


Yes, the decks are different. If you play with 2-4 pepole, just use the deck you have in your box, depending on the version.
 
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Bernie L

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What if you play a 2-4 player game and want to use factions from both boxes? I'd guess that you'd shuffle the prayer decks together then but am not positive.

Is the constellation deck the same across both boxes? If so, then you'd just use one deck in a 2-4 player game; is it 6+ where you need cards from both sets, meaning that you'd be OK with cards from a single box in a 5-player game?

If the constellation cards are not identical in both boxes, then I'm not sure how you'd handle a 2-4 player game in which you use a mix of factions from both boxes; maybe they're at least similar enough that using just one deck is fine (combining both decks in a smaller game would delay when the ante increases).
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Piotr Zuchowski
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In fact, there is no official ruling for mixing both sets when you play with 2-4 people. They are separate, standalone games and should only be mixed for 5+ games.

But of course nobody can forbid you mixing them anyway in such a case, if you really want to play a 2-4-player game with pantheons from both games, simply agree before the game on which Prayer deck you'd be using. But definitely don't use both.

Constellation decks are the same in both games.
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Bernie L

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zucho wrote:
In fact, there is no official ruling for mixing both sets when you play with 2-4 people. They are separate, standalone games and should only be mixed for 5+ games.

But of course nobody can forbid you mixing them anyway in such a case, if you really want to play a 2-4-player game with pantheons from both games, simply agree before the game on which Prayer deck you'd be using. But definitely don't use both.

Constellation decks are the same in both games.


Thanks!
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Piotr Konieczny
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zucho wrote:
In fact, there is no official ruling for mixing both sets when you play with 2-4 people. They are separate, standalone games and should only be mixed for 5+ games.

But of course nobody can forbid you mixing them anyway in such a case, if you really want to play a 2-4-player game with pantheons from both games, simply agree before the game on which Prayer deck you'd be using. But definitely don't use both.

Constellation decks are the same in both games.


Why not both?
 
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Piotr Zuchowski
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It's simply best to mix sets when playing with 5+ people.

This is why we have two separate and independent core games - for 2-4-player games it's better to choose one of them and stick to it without mixing components. You can of course mix gods and myths, but for the Prayer deck, which is the essential part of the game, it's easy to upset the balance when using two decks with fewer than 5 people.
 
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Bob Boberson
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To me, it makes sense to use one whole prayer deck from one of the sets and then 30 additional cards from the other prayer deck per player above 4. These could be randomly selected or agreed upon by all players.
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Michael Müllner
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Just to be 100 % clear: When playing with 5+ players, are both Constellation decks used or is one enough? If both are used, then the different card backs are definitely bad!
 
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Piotr Zuchowski
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hogfather1304 wrote:
Just to be 100 % clear: When playing with 5+ players, are both Constellation decks used or is one enough? If both are used, then the different card backs are definitely bad!


Both Constellation decks are exactly the same, so you only need to use one.
 
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