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Dominion: Dark Ages» Forums » Rules

Subject: Urchin/Rogue combo rss

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Unbiased Meeple
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During our last game of Dominion Dark Ages, I had the cards urchin and rogue come into my hand.

How would it resolve properly?

Urchin: +1 Card +1 Action
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you play another Attack card with this in play, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Mercenary from the Mercenary pile.

Rogue: If there are any cards in the trash costing from 3 to 6, gain one of them.

Would it be:
1. Play Urchin, put out Rogue with Urchin allowing me to trash itself for a Mercenary since Rogue is an action/attack. Then use Rogue to get Urchin back out of the trash.

or

2. Play Urchin, put out Rogue resolving the trash effect immediately. Then with Urchin allowing me to trash itself for a Mercenary since Rogue is an action/attack.

 
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Harold Coleman
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From the explanation of Urchin in the Dark Ages Appendix:

"While Urchin is in play, when you play another Attack card, before
resolving it
, you may trash the Urchin." <my emphasis in bold>

So it sounds like 1.
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Unbiased Meeple
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hgcoleman wrote:
From the explanation of Urchin in the Dark Ages Appendix:

"While Urchin is in play, when you play another Attack card, before
resolving it
, you may trash the Urchin." <my emphasis in bold>

So it sounds like 1.


Excellent! How I missed that.. Failure to read and came on here before checking the appendix blush
 
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David desJardins
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The Rogue effect triggers when you play Rogue, and the Urchin effect also triggers when you play Rogue. So that means you can choose to resolve them in either order you want. You can first trash the Urchin to gain a Mercenary, then resolve the Rogue effect. Or you can first resolve the Rogue effect, then trash the Urchin to gain a Mercenary.

I'm not a Dominion rules expert, so I'm sure six of them will jump on me if I'm wrong.
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Donald X.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
The Rogue effect triggers when you play Rogue, and the Urchin effect also triggers when you play Rogue. So that means you can choose to resolve them in either order you want. You can first trash the Urchin to gain a Mercenary, then resolve the Rogue effect. Or you can first resolve the Rogue effect, then trash the Urchin to gain a Mercenary.

I'm not a Dominion rules expert, so I'm sure six of them will jump on me if I'm wrong.

I think I count as at least seven.

Things that trigger on "When you play a card" always happen before resolving the card text of the played card. This was essential for Moat.
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David desJardins
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donaldx wrote:
Things that trigger on "When you play a card" always happen before resolving the card text of the played card. This was essential for Moat.


Is this general principle stated somewhere? Or is it just stated individually in the rules for each such card. I do see now that both Moat and Urchin contain such an explicit statement in the rulebooks.
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Donald X.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
donaldx wrote:
Things that trigger on "When you play a card" always happen before resolving the card text of the played card. This was essential for Moat.


Is this general principle stated somewhere? Or is it just stated individually in the rules for each such card. I do see now that both Moat and Urchin contain such an explicit statement in the rulebooks.

I don't think it's ever stated as a general rule. In the main set it's simpler to just cover Moat. It's never a theme anywhere.

It's kind of a weird rule. "When x happens" normally means "after x has finished happening." Another issue is that some Attacks only sometimes attack, e.g. Minion and Pirate Ship, and people want to reveal Moat when the attack option is chosen, rather than when the card is announced.

One way to handle it well would be to label attacks inside the text. Moat would say something like "When you're attacked" and this would be explained as when the "Attack:" clause is reached, but before it does anything. However the various expansions all need to work together, so this kind of revision is difficult at this point.
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