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Subject: A few gaffes leads to a few laughs rss

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Norbert Chan
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Wow, so this is what you get for 100 pieces of gold.
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I had wanted to play this game back in October during the Fallcon gaming convention, but it was in constant play, so I was glad when Don was able to get a copy. Don explained the rules to us. Don (blue) said he would be spy master for Ken and I, while Greg (red) would be the spymaster for Trevor. Greg and Trevor went first. Greg gave the clue James 1, so Trevor picked Bond. But I secretly wondered why Greg did not say James 2, since Cook was also on the board, and so I was able to deduce the Cook card was not part of their network.

Don gave us the clue “Steel 2”. So the Iron word was easy to uncover as part of the blue team, but now what was the next word? Ken and I talked about it. Ken thought it was stealing a pitch as Don is a baseball fan. I thought it meant steel cover. In the post mortem, Don meant it to also mean needle. Anyways, we guessed at cover, and it was right, but not Don’s intent.

The next clue was hospital 1 which we obviously decoded to be doctor. But wait, Greg said that was a red spy! You see, Don is colorblind, so that is one of the hazards of playing with someone who can’t distinguish colors very well. Now that our confidence was all shot, we gamely continued.

There was another clue, and I can’t remember what it was, but we ended up doing a wild ass guess (WAG), at least it was Ken who did the WAG, since he was convinced it was pitch, and he ended up being right, even though that was not the intent from Don.

With two “correct” guesses, that eventually enabled us to prevail by getting to 8 words before they could get to 9 words.


We are blue and with 2 lucky guesses get to 8 words before they can uncover 9 words.

We’re now making fun of Ken’s technique in this game.
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Chris
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I read "A few Giraffes". Disappointed
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1 Lucky Texan
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this reminds me of a question I have had;

suppose I want to say "Steel (steal) : 2"

BUT, I want to indicate - I dunno - Theft and Ship

That is, I have chosen a word specifically because it is a homophone and has 2 meanings.

Now, am I allowed to refuse spelling it if my team asks? Or, can I spell it both ways?
 
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I'm pretty sure you have to spell it if asked.
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1 Lucky Texan
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toober wrote:
I'm pretty sure you have to spell it if asked.


So, I can give both spellings?
 
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Chris
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1 Lucky Texan wrote:
this reminds me of a question I have had;

suppose I want to say "Steel (steal) : 2"

BUT, I want to indicate - I dunno - Theft and Ship

That is, I have chosen a word specifically because it is a homophone and has 2 meanings.

Now, am I allowed to refuse spelling it if my team asks? Or, can I spell it both ways?


That's a pretty basic rule for the game. Only one one meaning of a word is allowed, so one spelling. I presume you've not read the rulebook yourself? It's one of the rules that helps build a feel for the spirit of the game, which often needs to take over from written rules, which can be very fiddly to nail down as... language.
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1 Lucky Texan
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you're right and I should know better, that type of use of a homophone is not allowed because a specific spelling must be 'implied' to relate to the meaning(s) of the words.

extensive discussions have taken place about that - plus a good explanation in the rules (night vs knight) illustrates the violation well.
 
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Chris
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TBH I'm not actually sure though why the paid attention to different spellings, as I'd think two meanings of the word spelled the same would be equally wrong.

In my mind "Form 2" to cover "Application" and "Shape" would not be in the spirit of the game.
 
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1 Lucky Texan
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yeah - it seems there's a broad 'zone' in which there's a lot of question as to what makes a 'clever' clue - vs what is 'illegal'.
 
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Susan
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
TBH I'm not actually sure though why the paid attention to different spellings, as I'd think two meanings of the word spelled the same would be equally wrong.

In my mind "Form 2" to cover "Application" and "Shape" would not be in the spirit of the game.


I disagree with this.
I think you absolutely have to make connections like this.
In fact, I don't know how you could win without doing so.
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isellsunshine wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
TBH I'm not actually sure though why the paid attention to different spellings, as I'd think two meanings of the word spelled the same would be equally wrong.

In my mind "Form 2" to cover "Application" and "Shape" would not be in the spirit of the game.


I disagree with this.
I think you absolutely have to make connections like this.
In fact, I don't know how you could win without doing so.


I'm with you. Now, I haven't read the entire rules, because the game is so elegant that it needs little explanation, but a big part of the metagame I've witnessed over dozens of plays is people using clues that have multiple meanings.

Frankly, even if the rules were to say that you shouldn't use a clue with multiple meanings, I would house rule that away. Multiple meanings are integral to the brilliance of Codenames.
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Marlene Thornstrom
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Even words spelled the same but pronounced differently are valid, according to the rules.
 
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Seeing as how this game capitalizes on multiple word meanings, I think it should be valid to refuse a spelling unless you are 'strictly by the book'. Technically, being able to refuse a spelling would be 'another clue' to your first clue:#. Sure many clues are based on different spellings but if asked, you must give a single spelling.
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Tony C
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I'm fine with "Form". "Steel", hmm, maybe.
IIRC I read where the words were carefully chosen to lead into homonym and multiple-meaning type clues.
With Steel, I'd be fine with giving that as a clue - and hope they interpret it both/either way - but if asked to spell it, suck it up and pick a spelling. (I'm not sure if that scenario is specifically verboten in the rules.)
I think that creative uses of words are well within the spirit of the game.
 
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Ali Cali
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
1 Lucky Texan wrote:
this reminds me of a question I have had;

suppose I want to say "Steel (steal) : 2"

BUT, I want to indicate - I dunno - Theft and Ship

That is, I have chosen a word specifically because it is a homophone and has 2 meanings.

Now, am I allowed to refuse spelling it if my team asks? Or, can I spell it both ways?


That's a pretty basic rule for the game. Only one one meaning of a word is allowed, so one spelling. I presume you've not read the rulebook yourself? It's one of the rules that helps build a feel for the spirit of the game, which often needs to take over from written rules, which can be very fiddly to nail down as... language.

I don't agree here. First, having multiple meanings of the same word is totally fine. The rules state you can spell a word without committing to a pronunciation, such as b-o-w. So different meanings are okay.

On the point of spelling, the rules say you should spell the word if asked. However, the flexible rules allow using homophones as clues, but still not changing the splling of the card. So if you use the flexible rule, you can say Knight/Night without spelling, but you cannot state a clue for Knight when the card you want is Night.

In the spirit of that flexible rule, I would allow steel/steal. I think it allows more clever play.
 
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Chris
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aliallison wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
1 Lucky Texan wrote:
this reminds me of a question I have had;

suppose I want to say "Steel (steal) : 2"

BUT, I want to indicate - I dunno - Theft and Ship

That is, I have chosen a word specifically because it is a homophone and has 2 meanings.

Now, am I allowed to refuse spelling it if my team asks? Or, can I spell it both ways?


That's a pretty basic rule for the game. Only one one meaning of a word is allowed, so one spelling. I presume you've not read the rulebook yourself? It's one of the rules that helps build a feel for the spirit of the game, which often needs to take over from written rules, which can be very fiddly to nail down as... language.

I don't agree here. First, having multiple meanings of the same word is totally fine. The rules state you can spell a word without committing to a pronunciation, such as b-o-w. So different meanings are okay.

On the point of spelling, the rules say you should spell the word if asked. However, the flexible rules allow using homophones as clues, but still not changing the splling of the card. So if you use the flexible rule, you can say Knight/Night without spelling, but you cannot state a clue for Knight when the card you want is Night.

In the spirit of that flexible rule, I would allow steel/steal. I think it allows more clever play.


I think we actually DO agree... well on the original spelling rule that's just written down in ink, so is what it is, but neither of us think that strict spelling should be a dividing line in the game, right? It seems strange that they deliberately rule in different meanings of the same spelling.

but of course if you could give a word that could be both spelled and pronounced differently then that's a different word...

But then... you SAY the word. You pronounce it, so how can is be allowed for pronunciations to vary?
 
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Ali Cali
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
But then... you SAY the word. You pronounce it, so how can is be allowed for pronunciations to vary?

You do not have to pronounce it. From the rulebook:
Quote:
You are allowed to spell out your clue. For example, if you want your teammates to guess THEATER and STRING, you can spell out b-o-w without committing to a pronunciation.
 
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Chris
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aliallison wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
But then... you SAY the word. You pronounce it, so how can is be allowed for pronunciations to vary?

You do not have to pronounce it. From the rulebook:
Quote:
You are allowed to spell out your clue. For example, if you want your teammates to guess THEATER and STRING, you can spell out b-o-w without committing to a pronunciation.

I always took that to be about clarification. Maybe not then.
 
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