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Sentinels of the Multiverse» Forums » General

Subject: New Player just getting DESTROYED (Help!) rss

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Dan Zuccarelli
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So I'll start by saying I'm a VERY new player, only a few games under our belts in our group.

The three of us have picked heroes/villains/locations sort of at random but after we got COMPLETELY destroyed in the last game now I'm thinking that just can't be the way to play this game.

In that game we played as Visionary, Expatriette and Mr Fixer against Plague Rat in Rook City. Like I said we just picked characters we liked and the villain based on complexity since we had defeated Baron Blade the game before.

I think before we even got a hit in on him 2/3 of us were closing in on half health. Is this just how the game typically works, putting your back against the wall straight away and really NEVER letting up? Or did we get unlucky with card draws out of the villain deck? Or does the Team make up matter to an extent that picking characters we like the sound of is silly (sort of like picking roles at random in Pandemic let's say).

How do you pick who you play as and who you fight against? I almost wish there was a campaign style progression. Like an order to the games to run you through a balanced fight that let you play different chars over time to get good at it and then cut you loose to just make up combos.

At it's core I really like and have no issue investing in further sets, but I feel like even in the games we won we just got wailed on at the start so heavily it was tough to dig back out to ever feel like we weren't just getting railroaded.

Is this just how the game works? And what can I do to help mitigate that? 1 person in our group is seriously ho-hum on the game, and the other 2 of us really like it but feel super defeated about it after this last attempt. Wondering where we go from here.

Thanks for the help/opinions!
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Brian C
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There's a steep learning curve to this game, not in terms of its ruleset (what ruleset!), but before you know which heroes are the damage dealers, which are really good tanks, and which are best at support -- you're in for some butt-whoopings.

Wish they did a better job at outlining what heroes perform which roles the best, and which combinations of roles to use to find victory.

I'm sure some SotM vets will come along and help in that regard.
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Dexter Chengadu
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I just use the sentinels randomizer app. You can adjust it to difficulty, or even put in your players and other things and see the chances.

Maybe that'll help
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GeekInsight
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Random setups are, indeed, possible. But some combinations are just stronger than others.

Plague Rat, as a villain, is basically a damage race. To defeat him, you have to do more damage to him than he does to you. Unfortunately, Visionary does very little damage herself. Mr. Fixer can do some nice damage, but tends to perform better with multiple villain targets. With Plague Rat, it's just him (and the nest he starts with). So he's a little muted. Expatriette can do pretty good damage, but she alone is going to have a tough time against Plague Rat.

Add to that, that Rook City is probably the most difficult environment in the game for the heroes. It can be very punishing and it deals a lot of damage.

In other words, the random setup you came up with was one of the more difficult ones.

Over several games, you get a better sense of the synergies of various heroes and villains. And different villains require different strategies where different heroes will excel. For example, Visionary is fantastic as a supporting character who can really stop some of the villain's deadliest cards. Which is great for some villains who have terrible, terrible cards you need to avoid (like Dawn's Devastating Aurora or Voss's Forced Deployment). But against Plague Rat, she's going to need more support than Fixer and Expatriette can provide.
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Ben MacFarlane
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This difficulty scoring system made by Matthew Gray can be useful in setting up the game and knowing what to expect from a certain combination of decks: http://x.gray.org/sentinels-of-the-multiverse-difficulty-sco...

From the game setup you describe, it looks like the difficulty score would be 123, or 50%+ chance of losing, even if you're not new to the game. In particular, notice that Rook City is by a wide margin the most difficult environment, and Mr. Fixer and Expatriette are two of the "weakest" heroes in the game.
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Adam
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Bingosn wrote:
I just use the sentinels randomizer app. You can adjust it to difficulty, or even put in your players and other things and see the chances.

Maybe that'll help

I just plugged this game into the randomizer app and it gives an estimated win rate (based on Sentinels Statistics Project) of 28%.

It looks like you randomly selected a rough setup. Switching to Megalopolis would increase your chances of winning to 47%. Adding Legacy as a group controlled character in Rook City would bring you up to 76% chance of victory.

edit:ninjaninja
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Tony C
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There's definitely lots of luck in the card draws. I played against the Matriarch one time and almost all her cards were in the discard pile - THEN I drew the "play all ravens from the discard pile". The table was barely big enough!

The Sentinels Randomizer app gives your combo of heroes, environment, and villain, a 44% chance of victory. Changing the environment to Mobile Defense Platform could increase those odds up to 70%, so the interaction among heroes, environments, and villain is very important.

That said, I dislike games that are "solved" - "oh, you're fighting Villain A? You want Heroes 1, 2, 3 then." That's not fun for me.
I do the same thing you do, especially with new players. Pick a character they like. I will then pick my character keeping theirs in mind, in an attempt to balance the team.

My most exciting games, however, are the ones where two heroes are incapped and the third finally deals the victory blow against the baddie just in the nick of time. Getting slaughtered isn't any fun, but neither is a cakewalk.

Maybe try again, let them pick who they want to be, but help guide the choice of your hero and the villain/environment to make it a little more balanced while everyone is still getting more experienced.

A campaign mode would be pretty cool, I would be surprised if someone hasn't created a variant with some sort of campaign mode. (D&D Temple of Elemental Evil and of course the PACG are good co-ops with campaign modes.)
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MGS
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First time we played, quite a few years ago, we had Absolute Zero, in Atlantis and it was a disaster. Even then, we made some research and sorted out friendlier starting points. You have so many resources today that it is not difficult to have a smoother get go.

Choose a level 1 Villain, 3-4 level 1 Heroes and you should be fine. Even better if you play in Megalopolis, Insula Primalis and definitely avoid Rook City.
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Ted W
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Yes, Plague Rat is a beast.

I've seen Fixer and Expatriette work well against him, but only if Fixer gets his cards that reduce enemy damage, and if Expatriette also gets her ammo which reduces enemy damage, as well as a reliable method to keep recycling that ammo.
(with a number of plays with those heroes under your belts, you'll eventually get a feel for which cards you really need against which enemies).

Fighting any enemy in Rook City is a recipe for pain, though.

Good luck in future battles!
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Vincent Lalyman
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If you are a new player, I'd recommand fighting villain in order of growing difficulty. Begin with Blade and Omnitron, Ambuscade, Gloomweaver...
You can choose your heroes and environment randomly, but the villains are another story...
Even the difficulty 1 villain can be a challenge at first - but after fighting them a few times, you'll learn the tricks : how to best combo with other heroes, what targets to prioritize, how much damage you can take before being worried, and so on. You'll be well prepared for harder villains.
Be patient - this is a game where the players level up, not the characters
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Bern Harkins
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Handelabra Games featured this exact setup on their twitch stream Tuesday. It was suggested to one of the programmers in a twitter conversation as "an unwinnable combo".

Well, they were able to win, but narrowly (and only by being very tricksy...). They rated it a very hard scenario...


You can view it at http://www.twitch.tv/handelabragames until next Tuesday; it will also appear on Youtube eventually.
 
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John Arnold
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Actually as it happens, danzuke tweeted me about it and I didn't find this thread until this morning! Funny =)

Here's that conversation: https://twitter.com/perpetualgeek/status/704693324351991808
 
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Dan Zuccarelli
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Radulla wrote:
Handelabra Games featured this exact setup on their twitch stream Tuesday. It was suggested to one of the programmers in a twitter conversation as "an unwinnable combo".

Well, they were able to win, but narrowly (and only by being very tricksy...). They rated it a very hard scenario...


You can view it at http://www.twitch.tv/handelabragames until next Tuesday; it will also appear on Youtube eventually.



Just as an FYI, I didn't call it "an unwinnable combo" but rather "near impossible" which I think is accurate given the fact it was my 3rd game and the guys that play it hardcore barely won
 
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John Arnold
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Yeah, I never said "unwinnable combo" on the stream, I quoted what you called it - "near impossible."
 
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Bern Harkins
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My bad; I should have checked the reference if I was going to use quotes.

It was late. Wine had been involved.
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