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Subject: 6 Player Game rss

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Jo Bartok
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Hey,

I got all the expansions (but never played Pegasus, only the other ones). So would you play with 6 players or avoid and play only with 5 or 7?.

Is it viable and great to play with 6 players, having 1 Cylon Leader and 2 "You are a Cylon" cards (thus max 3 Cylons)?

Can I just play Cyclon leaders and do not add anything from Pegasus aside that?
 
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Kwijiboe
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My recommendation is to rip everything else out and play Pegasus ONLY with 6 players, CL and New Caprica.

The experience works well if you use only Pegasus components...they designed this expansion too tightly in my opinion.
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ionas wrote:
Hey,

I got all the expansions (but never played Pegasus, only the other ones). So would you play with 6 players or avoid and play only with 5 or 7?.

7p
requires Pegasus and/or Daybreak, and for you to use the appropriate rules for CL (Cylon Leader. In this case, Daybreak will trump if both are used, going with Motives over Agendas). Furthermore, Daybreak also has you use the Mutineer.

Also, there is more downtime between turns, but there are some interesting dynamics that you wouldn't get otherwise.

I know some wouldn't play with anything but 5, let alone a 6p or even 7p game. I prefer to avoid it, but if it's all we got, then yeah, I'd be game. The game is far too difficult to get played if you only opt for 5.

We had one game night where it was supposed to be 18 players across 3 games. 3 people had to bail, but one of them was brining a copy of the game, so were down to 15 people and 2 games. One person offered to sit out (she could just do grad school hw), but that person ended up being a no-show. So with 14 people and 2 games, it wasn't ideal but we did 2 7p games. Normally, we do cap it at up to 6p per game



ionas wrote:
Is it viable and great to play with 6 players, having 1 Cylon Leader and 2 "You are a Cylon" cards (thus max 3 Cylons)?
IMO, yes. With Daybreak your alternative for a 6p game is to play with Mutineer instead, but I'd lean towards CL

There's always the official no-symp rule, which although Daybreak does have rules to not have to do that (ditto with Pegasus' CL), you always could elect it and just NOT use either CL nor Mutr.

Food and Morale start at 1 less each, Pop at 2 less, and revealed cylons draw 3, not 2 skill cards

ionas wrote:
Can I just play Cyclon leaders and do not add anything from Pegasus aside that?

You may. Some of the stuff replaces Peg. anyways, like Motives replacing Agendas, the Daybreak cylon locations overlay replacing the Pegasus one. If you're talking about ALL stuff, like char sheets, skill cards, Qcards, Crisis, Dest.... you still can, although now it would be going against the rules (not that there's anything necessarily wrong with this)
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Pasi Ojala
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5 players is best, gladly play with 4 with Cylon Leader Motives (from Daybreak), slightly less gladly play with 6 with Cylon Leader Motives (from Daybreak) - more gladly if there are players we see less often. With 3 players, we play with 3 Cylon Leaders with our 3-CL variant.

With Cylon Leader Agendas, I don't know. If that's the option between playing and not playing, I would prefer to play.
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Jo Bartok
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I got daybreak. Should I go with Cylon Leader Motives from Daybreak?
I can't change it for Saturday, 6 peeps we will be.

Edit: Note that I just want to use the base game AND a minimum set of features required for "good feel gameplay" with 6 players. I got all the expansions, doesn't mean I have to play them.
 
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ionas wrote:
I got daybreak. Should I go with Cylon Leader Motives from Daybreak?

Definitely check how the Motives work now (deal yourself 2, read them, then deal 2 more as if during sleeper phase).

The Motives are not tied to any specific components (except treachery cards) like Agendas seem to be (allegedly) tied to New Caprica.

Edit: and Mutiny, but you can just leave out those Motives.
 
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Carl Bussema
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Motives good. In a pinch, I guess Mutineer is OK for 6p, but can be very swingy if not dealt at start of game and sleeper phase is at distance 6.

Might do official No-Sympathizer variant for 6p if nobody wanted to play a Cylon Leader.

Definitely use Daybreak Treachery & Mutiny cards (you need them even if you don't have a mutineer); the Pegasus treachery is way too easy to game by just never making checks reckless once treachery is in players' hands. Daybreak treachery has real teeth.
 
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Mindy G
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How experienced are your 6 players? If it is mostly newbies, then I would go with base game, no symp variant.
 
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a1bert wrote:
ionas wrote:
I got daybreak. Should I go with Cylon Leader Motives from Daybreak?

Definitely check how the Motives work now (deal yourself 2, read them, then deal 2 more as if during sleeper phase).

The Motives are not tied to any specific components (except treachery cards) like Agendas seem to be (allegedly) tied to New Caprica.
Not quite true... one of them ties in to Treachery directly. The other ties in to Mutiny.


InfoCynic wrote:
Motives good. In a pinch, I guess Mutineer is OK for 6p, but can be very swingy if not dealt at start of game and sleeper phase is at distance 6.

Might do official No-Sympathizer variant for 6p if nobody wanted to play a Cylon Leader.
If the OP's willing to take that mantle, then that could work. Just explain to everyone else that he's (on paper) half human, half cylon for his goals/path. There will be more confusion in where some things are different for a CL, which they may not how to properly deal with. The OP should go "scout's honor" and pledge to honestly help them whenever he can, even if it means going against his chances of winning.

Hmm, no-symp can just keep things more simple, even if it means the 2 cylons will feel more "alone"


InfoCynic wrote:
Definitely use Daybreak Treachery & Mutiny cards (you need them even if you don't have a mutineer); the Pegasus treachery is way too easy to game by just never making checks reckless once treachery is in players' hands. Daybreak treachery has real teeth.
Well, Daybreak Treachery can be too much for some folks given some situations. However, there's really no middle ground between the 2. I'd still lean towards Daybreak Tr, but not by that much.
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Victor Lesperance
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I love playing 6 players. We play base game only. 4 humans. 2 cylons. We draw a bonus CAC card the instant the fleet reaches distance 8+. We use the newer investigative committee cards, and when cylons reveal, they immediately pass their extra loyalty cards to the player of their choice. There's no "take backs" so cylons can apologize for "doing something dumb" but aren't insta-revealed when they don't undo their move and follow the committee's demands.

The games are usually tight with the losing team feeling they lost by 1-2 jump symbols. Then ending is usually a bit more exciting with guaranteed cylon ships flying around the board. In our games, the cylons win roughly 60%, humans 40%.

The "no sympathizer" variant described earlier is also effective. The exta CAC accomplishes much the same goal: Offset the extra human by giving the humans less resources (or in this case, increasing the chance that they lose a couple in sector 8). In our case, it feels more fun (cinematic?) to have an epic battle play out at the end.
 
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Carl Bussema
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vlesperance wrote:
I love playing 6 players. We play base game only. 4 humans. 2 cylons. We draw a bonus CAC card the instant the fleet reaches distance 8+. We use the newer investigative committee cards, and when cylons reveal, they immediately pass their extra loyalty cards to the player of their choice. There's no "take backs" so cylons can apologize for "doing something dumb" but aren't insta-revealed when they don't undo their move and follow the committee's demands.


Ugh. Just give a call for interrupts before the check starts, once that's happened, if no committee is in play, players can start playing into the check and then it's too late for committees.

Now if the Cylon just isn't paying attention and tries to put their cards in face down when the committee was in play ahead of time, that's just too bad, and then yeah, I agree with no take backs, but really that's on the Cylons to pay more attention.
 
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Victor Lesperance
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Apologies for my poor communication. I meant "committee" in the conceptual sense, not the card.

For example, a cylon pilot moves to the hanger bay to launch. Suddenly the "human committee" says, "oh, you'll never get there in time. Go to communications and move the civvies behind the wall of 6 vipers and we're safe."

If you weren't clear, human players will start arguing (for example) that his fingers barely left his piece. Let him move to communications instead. Cylons will be afraid to argue that a move is a move because it makes them look bad.

And if your group is "too friendly," the cylons loose all kinds of opportunities for tiny sabotages like that.

So, before loyalty cards a dealt, I make it clear, we play "not friendly." No take-backs of anything, ever. And everyone I've played with is cool about it. We're playing "not friendly," not because we're jerks, but because the game is more fun (for both teams) when the cylons poke at you from every direction.
 
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Ah yes, that. Well, we so rarely agree on what the best course of action is, or just assume everyone is giving bad advice because they have a trick up their sleeve or evil plan to exploit the action they want you to take...
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Jo Bartok
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So is base game + pegasus leaders + pegasus caprica + pegasus battlestar a good thing then for 6?
 
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ionas wrote:
So is base game + pegasus leaders + pegasus caprica + pegasus battlestar a good thing then for 6?


In my opinion, Pegasus was designed for exactly that. That's the problem with the expansion as a whole--

It assumes you're playing with each and everyone of its components, even New Caprica.

If you don't intend on going to New Caprica though, you might want to just ditch the entire "Pegasus only" attempt.

The game only behaves property if you're going Pegasus components only, Pegasus CLs only with their corresponding Agenda, to New Caprica.

If you really want to play six, I'd recommend Base Game + No Symp variant if you are playing with new players. If veterans, go Daybreak with 6 and a CL. Although, In my opinion, the only 6 player BSG setup I enjoy is 6p, CL, Pegasus only to New Caprica.

In all other setups, the sixth player is far too swingy in my opinion. In base game/no Symp, it swings hard to the humans. In Daybreak, it's a coin flip.




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Mindy G
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New Caprica is crap, don't do it!
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oriecat wrote:
New Caprica is crap, don't do it!


It is not the best experience, I admit.

But it does indeed become complete crap if you put other Expansions' components on top of the experience.

I hate six player BSG because it feels so damn swingy or outright favors the humans. New Caprica feels the least swingy to me, although, it favors the humans for sure.
 
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How about 6p Daybreak, and you house rule to ensure the mutineer card is always dealt with the opening set of loyalty cards? Seems like that would reduce swinginess and help Daybreak play the way it is supposed to.
 
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Sappington wrote:
How about 6p Daybreak, and you house rule to ensure the mutineer card is always dealt with the opening set of loyalty cards? Seems like that would reduce swinginess and help Daybreak play the way it is supposed to.
If title holders are OK with increased chances of them losing their titles from the get-go, through no fault of their own, then this would be better.
 
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Kwijiboe
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Mutineer is busted once the 4th human realizes it's best to play from the brig rather than play harmful cards or waste his actions doing so.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
Sappington wrote:
How about 6p Daybreak, and you house rule to ensure the mutineer card is always dealt with the opening set of loyalty cards? Seems like that would reduce swinginess and help Daybreak play the way it is supposed to.
If title holders are OK with increased chances of them losing their titles from the get-go, through no fault of their own, then this would be better.


I would propose it to the group before characters are even chosen.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
Mutineer is busted once the 4th human realizes it's best to play from the brig rather than play harmful cards or waste his actions doing so.


So you're going to have 3 humans drawing crises per round? Even with highly aggressive scouting, you'd average well under 2 FTL advancements. The Cylons should immediately reveal and start hammering Caprica to drain you of all your cards, since the Brigged character can't throw more than one in, you'll have lots of fun passing the extra checks, plus more opportunities to throw treachery in and distribute even more mutiny...

Bonus points if you're using Exodus + Cylon Fleet, now they can just roll for tracks on basestar bridge and completely undo your FTL progress most of the time.
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Jo Bartok
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6 Player: Base +Pegasus +Cylon Leaders -Cain
vs
6 Player: Base +Pegasus +Cylon Leaders +Caprica

What would you prefer?

E.g. I am considering skipping Cain and Caprica.

I am also considering yielding any titles on execution and restricting OPG use to once per player per game.

I think most people know the game and have played it once or twice. Some more. One of those some would pick a Cylon Leader.
 
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Victor Lesperance
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If your average is 1-2 games a piece...

Base game, no sympathizer rules. Done.

If you add a cylon leader, one of two things happen.

1) He joins the humans which is fairly close facsimile of base game, no sympathizer. (4 humans vs 2 cylons but you've lost a couple resources while he made up his mind)

-or-

2) He joins the cyons. And 3 cylons vs 3 humans when everyone has only played once or twice should be a fairly overwhelming cylon victory.

 
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The Pegasus CLs and their corresponding Pegasus Agendas are tightly designed around New Caprica. The Agendas just don't work if you aren't going to New Caprica (which is why they're so critically panned: people play the CLs to Kobol).

Again, if you're not using each and everyone of Pegasus' components and rules-- there's no point in playing a Pegasus only setup.

You can certainly set aside Cain though. I think the house rule regarding OPGs is in line with Pegasus' rules. Also, regaining a title by choosing the next available military leader is less of an issue when there is a limited stack of military characters available. Perhaps ban the taking of a superior military leader or bring along Adama and Tigh. Similarly, Cain and Adama work well...but I'm not keen on Cain, either.

You're not using other expansions crisis/skill cards and characters, are you? I'd recommend not doing so.
 
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