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Codex: Card-Time Strategy – Deluxe Set» Forums » Rules

Subject: [Q] Tower rss

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Alan Kwan
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1. Does the Tower deal 1 combat damage to each enemy attacker which attacks anything, or does the Tower deal 1 combat damage to each enemy attacker which attacks the Tower?

2. Does the Tower "see" an (undetected, i.e. the Tower has already detected something else) enemy attacker which has Stealth (and deal 1 damage to it)?

3. Swift Strike says "Deals its combat damage before units and heroes without Swift Strike". But a Tower is neither a unit nor a hero. So does the Tower deal its 1 damage when it is blown up by an attacker with Swift Strike?

4. How does the Tower work in multi-player?
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Xom Nom
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Re: swift strike vs. Tower
Tower deals damage at the same time as the attacker, even if the attacker has swift strike.
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Bill Koens
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1. According to a replay I watched the tower deals one damage to every attacker not just attackers that attack it.
2. The tower only damages enemies it can see.
3. Can't answer this. I suspect the answer above is correct.
4. See answer number one: it damages everyone who would attacks you that it can see.
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Andrew Hauge
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Imagine the tower like a regular defensive tower in an RTS: when attackers come under it in order to attack their units, they take bombardment from the tower, even if they aren't targeting the tower. It's covering fire, and rather potent! When you attack anything when there's a tower, you take 1 damage first.
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Alan Kwan
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2. My question is about the distinction between Invisibility and Stealth. Obviously neither the Tower or anyone else sees an Invisible thing. But can't we argue that Stealth merely allows the thing to slip past the Patrollers without being seen by them, but a Tower is another matter? It would feel strange to say that a Tower can't see something Stealthy that is attacking the Tower itself.
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Ted Swalwell
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Alan Kwan wrote:
2. My question is about the distinction between Invisibility and Stealth. Obviously neither the Tower or anyone else sees an Invisible thing. But can't we argue that Stealth merely allows the thing to slip past the Patrollers without being seen by them, but a Tower is another matter? It would feel strange to say that a Tower can't see something Stealthy that is attacking the Tower itself.


AFAIK stealth just means
The Rulebook wrote:
Can sneak past patrollers if that opponent has no detector.


So I'd say it was hit by the tower - even if undetected, and even if it was attacking somthing else (i.e. the base, or another unit).
 
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Niccolò Ricchio
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ON YOUR TURN

tower lets you target ONE thing, ONCE. you can either attack it with a unit of yours (provided the way to it is clear), or target it with a spell or an ability.

ON EACH OPPONENT'S TURN

tower removes stealth/invisibility from the first unit that attacks you, usually forcing it to attack your patrollers

tower deals 1 damage to each thing attacking you, at the same time it deals its damage
 
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Spicy McCrab
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Carpe, you tak one extra damage simultaneously with the combat damage. Not first.
 
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Evgeni Marinov
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Domon wrote:
ON YOUR TURN

tower lets you target ONE thing, ONCE. you can either attack it with a unit of yours (provided the way to it is clear), or target it with a spell or an ability.

ON EACH OPPONENT'S TURN

tower removes stealth/invisibility from the first unit that attacks you, usually forcing it to attack your patrollers

tower deals 1 damage to each thing attacking you, at the same time it deals its damage


You're missing the point - the text on the card says it deals damage to attackers "that it can see"; the question is whether that means only invisible units ignore the damage, or also units with stealth (units that have not been detected).
 
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Xom Nom
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Tower sees non-Stealth/Invisible units + any Stealth/Invisible units detected by anything controlled by you or your ally.

If I correctly recall the ruling, when you use Tower on your turn, that unit stays detected for the rest of the turn, but I'm not sure I'm recalling correctly.
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Niccolò Ricchio
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also units with stealth, except for the first ones that attack (one for each detector you have - tower being one)
 
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Niccolò Ricchio
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Xomnom wrote:
Tower sees non-Stealth/Invisible units + any Stealth/Invisible units detected by anything controlled by you or your ally.

If I correctly recall the ruling, when you use Tower on your turn, that unit stays detected for the rest of the turn, but I'm not sure I'm recalling correctly.


i think just for one interaction.
 
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Xom Nom
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It stays detected until end of turn. This clarification was added to the rulebook recently.
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Alan Kwan
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So the conclusion is that, the Tower doesn't "see" (and damage) an undetected Stealthy enemy attacker, right?
 
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Bill Koens
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From the rules:
Quote:
Tower
Usually stealth and invisible attackers can ignore your patrollers (see the Combat section below), but if you have a tower then the first one of those that attacks you per turn can’t ignore your patrollers. On your turn, the tower (optionally) lets you reveal one invisible thing, which lets you attack it and target it with a spell or ability. Finally, the tower deals 1 combat damage to each enemy attacker (at the same time that attacker deals combat damage). Build a tower when you need a bit more defense.

Nothing here says the tower doesn't damage invisible or stealth attackers, just that it can force the first stealthy or invisible attack to deal with its patrollers. So the tower damages all attackers when they attack, stealthy, invisible, or neither.
 
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David Sirlin
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The tower only damages things it can see (it says so right on the tower card itself). It can not damage a thing with stealth or invisible UNLESS it spends its once per turn detect on that thing, or if something else already revealed that thing.
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Bill Koens
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So, to be clear, when an invisible unit attacks another unit, the unit being attacks still deals damage back? It's just the tower does not damage "unrevealed" stealthy or invisible units? I was confused because the paragraph in the rule set I looking at (set 42) doesn't say "that it can see" but only the tower piece itself.
 
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David Sirlin
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That rulebook line is kind of assuming "that it can see" as written on the card, but it would be even better if the line actually said that. Will add that to the rulebook. Also, there is a big faq / set of rulings we're working on that covers all this stuff too.

Yes, when an invisible or stealth thing attacks something, the something does get to deal damage back. And also yes, the tower only hits things it can see, meaning things that aren't invisible/stealth at all, or things that are but that were revealed somehow (such as by the tower's own once-per-turn detect).
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Evgeni Marinov
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Sirlin wrote:
[...] It can not damage a thing with stealth or invisible UNLESS it spends its once per turn detect on that thing [...]


This implies that the player who is defending can choose when to detect an attacking unit, but that is not true, right? The rules say the first attacker with invisibility/ stealth is detected.
 
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David Sirlin
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Yeah what you said is true and what I said is also true. If the tower hasn't used a detect that turn, it cannot see the stealth/invisible thing. Another way of phrasing that that means the same thing is that it can't see the stealth/invisible thing unless it used its detect that turn.

Then, as a separate concept from that, it detects the first time it can when it's an opponent's turn. The "unless" word used in my post is not meant to imply any kind of choice. There definitely isn't and can't be a choice on an opponent's turn, because you never ever make any decisions on an opponent's turn.
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