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Subject: Two more 'Bot Discussion Items rss

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Barry Miller
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1) About Churchill debating another Head of State...

Churchill's 'Bot guidance says to use Churchill to debate another Head of State who tries to Advance an issue on the UK track. (First, I assume this is the only caveat that allows the UK to debate an issue other than "Global")?

But what if it's an important issue (to the UK - let's say a UK Directed Offensive) that Stalin just moved onto Stalin's track? (Churchill doesn't want to give two production to Stalin, does he)? Would Churchill debate that? What would you guys do?


2) I guess the next item falls under the "Use your common sense" rule on page 23...

Let's say the situation is: The 'Bot is Churchill. It's Conference 9 or 10, the CBI front is on Burma, and that the Central Pacific front is attempting to enter Japan. The optimal play would be for Churchill to support the Central Pacific Front's move into Japan. But the Churchill 'Bot flow chart item "Post Conference Implementation, E., says to allocate production to the CBI, instead.

I would play this under the "use your common sense" rule and go contrary to the 'bot by allocating the UK's production to the Central Pacific Front instead of the CBI. Thoughts?


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Rex Stites
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It's really difficult to say what is the "optimal" move in any situation based solely on which fronts might advance, as in your second example. Sometimes the UK will want to advance the CBI in that situation because the UK has a sizeable lead and needs to dump points to another player. Sometimes, the UK will want to advance the CPF because it needs the maximum VPs possible.

Personally, I'd play it as literally written. The bots aren't going to be able to react to every conceivable situation, and what looks like a "common sense" play when made in conference 9, for example, may look like a bad play once the hindsight of how conference 10 plays out.

On the first one, I'd play it as written as well. In my opposed play, non-Stalin players generally won't debate an issue unless it's a global issue, etc. that is going onto another leader's chair. There's generally not an advantage to doing so since you can advance the issue to your track just as many spaces on your actual turn (though, as the UK it can be a useful to negate Stalin's nyet advantage; if you're going to advance the issue on your turn anyway, might as well do it as a debate to Roosevelt/Truman and then if Stalin wants to move the issue too, he'll not get the benefit of the Nyet bonus).

Moreover, in your example, if Churchill and Stalin are both bots, the bot may not really care which of the two get the production or it may even be in the bot's advantage that Stalin has it rather than Churchill.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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My two cents:

I have noticed a trend on BGG that those people who play the bots as written seem to enjoy the game much more than those who tamper with it to "improve" their decisions.

It is a generalization, but my anecdotal experience and readings suggest that it is best to play the bots as written for maximum enjoyment.
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Barry Miller
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
My two cents:

I have noticed a trend on BGG that those people who play the bots as written seem to enjoy the game much more than those who tamper with it to "improve" their decisions.

It is a generalization, but my anecdotal experience and readings suggest that it is best to play the bots as written for maximum enjoyment.

Point well received. Thanks!

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Adam Gastonguay
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I'm currently on Conference 10 of a full campaign game, and I haven't put ANY thought into "common sense" moves and done the bots completely as written. I am playing Roosevelt, and so far this is resulting in a Churchill win at Condition 2.

The game goes much quicker and you can spend more time thinking about your own choices if you just do a quick read through of the numbers on the cards and roll when the numbers are equal. Random play, do what the chart says and move along. This also prevents you from memorizing what's in the other player's hands too easily, so you may play a card thinking Stalin can't Nyet it, but then find a card with a +2 bonus or somesuch that you forgot about.

Now how to figure out how to get Stalin to win 3 Pol-mil issues....
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Bruce Bergquist
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The way I would understand your first question and the 'Bot response is this: Stalin himself has just moved an issue that was on UK track, and pulled it over to USSR track. In that case, yes, regardless of the issue, Churchill would debate. (The 'Bot guideline says, "Save for debating another Head of State who tries to advance an issue on the UK track....") To me it's obvious that "tries to advance an issue on the UK track" means it was on the UK Track, the other leader is used to move it from the UK track to his own track, but Churchill springs into action to bring it back. Well, that's my 2 cents' worth, anyway
 
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Barry Miller
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BBergquist wrote:
The way I would understand your first question and the 'Bot response is this: Stalin himself has just moved an issue that was on UK track, and pulled it over to USSR track. In that case, yes, regardless of the issue, Churchill would debate. (The 'Bot guideline says, "Save for debating another Head of State who tries to advance an issue on the UK track....") To me it's obvious that "tries to advance an issue on the UK track" means it was on the UK Track, the other leader is used to move it from the UK track to his own track, but Churchill springs into action to bring it back. Well, that's my 2 cents' worth, anyway

Yes, true. The main gist of my question though, which I did a very poor job of conveying, is, what would you guys do if Stalin advances an issue from the U.S. or the center of the table - either simply onto his track, or all the way to his chair - and that issue is important to Churchill? I.e., the issue doesn't fit the situation that you quoted from the 'Bot guidance - i.e., Stalin didn't advance it from the UK track. But yet the issue may [obviously] be critical to Churchill's or the Allie's progress, despite. Would you use Churchill to debate?

That was supposed to be my question, anyway.

Regardless, the much-appreciated replies posted by everyone above informs me that doing so would be a mistake, and that it's always better to play exactly (as much as possible) by the words in the 'Bot flowchart. This is good advice.

My OP was coming from the perspective of trying to maximize Mark's guidance to use common sense in situations where common sense would prevail over the sub-optimal guidance provided by the 'Bot. But again, the responses above have provided a different way to address the 'Bot's logic!

Thanks for replying!

 
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Adam Gastonguay
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FYI, Stalin ended up winning in a Condition 2 victory.

Turns out I helped him a bit too much.

Or not enough, depending on how you look at it.

I can never traverse that tightrope that is this game well enough.
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Mark Herman
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CthulhuKid wrote:
FYI, Stalin ended up winning in a Condition 2 victory.

Turns out I helped him a bit too much.

Or not enough, depending on how you look at it.

I can never traverse that tightrope that is this game well enough.


As I have said I want people to play this game 10 years from now and still feel its a challenge. I hope that is still the case here.

Thanks for the support,

Mark
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