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Triumph & Tragedy» Forums » Rules

Subject: USA - non-West influence attrition rss

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Brett Johnson
United States
New Hampshire
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This is a follow-on thread to an earlier one, where one user described the difficulty in getting the US into the war due to the Axis/Russia double teaming to keep the US out.

Although my experience is that this is not a problem (with the people I play with), I can easily see that it could be...

I also can see that early luck by either the Axis/Russia in drawing a bunch of US cards could be hard to overcome.

So one thought I had, if this turns out to be a larger problem...

The game already establishes an inherent bias of the US towards the West in several ways...

So a potential fix (should a problem be determined):
At the end of the diplomacy phase, discard 1 non-West influence chit in the US, unless one was newly placed this turn.

This reflects that a even a massive 1 year propaganda blitz would have tough time permanently altering US opinions given both the size and inherent bias of the US.

This would allow an early lucky draw of US cards by the Axis/Soviets to slowly erode away (or force them to continue to invest) and not force the West to collect a total of 6+ US cards.

1936 - 3 Sov chits (3 cards played)
1937 - 2 Sov chits (1 attrition, 0 cards played)
1938 - 1 Sov chits (1 attrition, 0 cards played)
1940 - 0 Sov chits (1 attrition, 0 cards played)
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United Kingdom
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In my (limited) experience, the Axis player holds on to his USA cards in order to remove Western influence, rather than place the influence and have it subject to instant removal by yellow event cards. So, eroding non-West influence in USA wouldn't help.

I think there is a meta-game balance to be found. The USA is huge for the West, but can the Axis afford to ignore the Soviets. With a little negotiation, one of the Axis or Soviets can "allow" the West to gain a US satellite in return for support against the remaining player.
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marc lecours
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The USA strength affects the game starting in 1942 but mostly it affects the game in 1943, 1944, 1945. So it gives the West a big boost late in the game.

The Axis don't care. It is usually determined whether the Axis will win or lose by 1942. Assume the West and Soviets cooperated and were a bit lucky in the early game. So that if the Axis are in a weak position in 1942, then the USSR will win the game unless the West can do something in the last few turns.

I believe that a late USA helps the USSR more than the Axis. If the early game went well for the Axis then they don't care about the USA. On the other hand if the Axis is weak going into the endgame then the USSR is looking forward to a win. The last thing they want to see is the USA sweeping in to finish off a weak Axis.

I think that the Axis should try to keep the USA from giving resources to the West faction. But beyond that they should not bother to stop the USA entry. On the other hand the Soviets should really try to keep the USA neutral for a long time.

Many groups seem to think that the USSR wins too often and that the West is under powered. The Axis should not worry too much about the late war strength of the West. The Axis should play to win early. What I am saying is that the Axis and Soviets ganging up on the West helps the soviets more than the Axis.

Then again I could be wrong.
(It sounds logical but the argument could be full of holes)

(In our group, the USSR and West often agree to cooperate for the first 3 years. Therefore the USSR cannot play any anti USA entry cards.)

(There is a possibility that (in the second edition) only the West will be allowed to place influence chits on the USA. The Axis and Soviets would be limited to removing influence chits from the USA)
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