Biodiesel
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Daybreak pages 16 and 17 wrote:

Combining Daybreak and Pegasus/Exodus

1. If his character was the Mutineer and he had revealed a
“You Are a Cylon” Loyalty Card during the “Prove Loyalty”
step, he chooses a human player and passes him the “You
Are the Mutineer” Loyalty Card faceup as he would when
he reveals as a Cylon.

2. If he revealed a “You Are a Cylon” Loyalty Card during the
“Prove Loyalty” step, he gives all of his remaining facedown
Loyalty Cards to a human player of his choice when he
carries out the steps of revealing as a Cylon.


Are those separate steps? So if the mutineer is executed and reveals a cylon card, must they pass the face-down loyalty cards and Mutineer card to the same person, or can they be different people? The rulebook makes it sound like two separate steps. It says you pass Mutineer as if you revealed, but then the second says you will be expected to pass the loyalty cards during the normal process/steps of revealing.

Is execution even relevant here, or would it be the same behavior during a normal reveal?
 
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Kwijiboe
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"Prove loyalty" is an execution mechanic and has nothing to do with revealing. Note that the rule is specifically referring to the Pegasus and a Exodus expansions...the expansions that have the execution mechanic.

If you reveal as a Cylon, there is no "prove loyalty" step. It's a procedure for executions, put in place to ensure the executed player does not expose that he has both "you are a Cylon" cards.

All they are doing here is factoring in execution rules with the handoff of the mutineer title card. The "reassign" titles rule doesn't account for there not being a chain of command for the mutineer title, thus the reasoning for an amendment to the execution rules.

The reasoning for the discrepancy in the errata in the daybreak manual is because the Exodus Rulebook does NOT have handoff rules for loyalty cards. If you are executed as a Cylon...That extra Cylon card or any other loyalty cards are NOT automatically handed off, the exodus Rulebook specifically directs the player to keep all of his face down cards. The player may only then hand off his cards via the Ressurection hub.

The Daybreak/Exodus errata directs you to handoff excess loyalty cards instead, because the old Ressurection hub has been overwritten with the Daybreak overlay. Thus, it includes errata that might seem to be redundant... But it is there because the Exodus designers axed the loyalty handoff rule from Pegasus to make room for their supposed optional conflicted loyalties module. Interestingly enough, it's an intentional change--the Exodus designers errata Caprica's nerf (no longer skip jump preps) in the Rulebook but maintain the Ressurection hub's base game original use: the handoff of excess loyalty cards.

Look in the Exodus manual... It tells the executed Cylon to keep all of his remaining loyalty cards and never permits the player to hand them off automatically. The only way to do so is with the Ressurection Hub. If, however, you look in the Exodus Rulebook for instructions on playing with Pegasus--it tells you to follow the handoff rules found in Pegasus... but that's only because Pegasus's overlay restricts the handoff of loyalty cards because it blocks the original hub location. Yep, the Exodus designers were that lazy.

Exodus is such a piece of work.

Finally, the rules do not specify that the mutineer and excess loyalty cards must go to the same person. My best guess would be to execute the steps in order, however, I don't see any problem doing one handoff before the other.

I really think the hang up here is that handoff rules are contained separately from execution rules. That makes sense since Exodus has no handoff rule in place, period.
 
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Interesting, thanks for the reply. We can actually completely ignore Exodus, and focus on just combining Daybreak and Pegasus. The Daybreak rulebook accounts for both configurations, and uses the EXACT same text, just repeated, for both configs.

So, if we ignore Exodus and its rules, then are we thinking the Daybreak rulebook is saying pass the face-up Mutineer and face-down loyalty cards as completely separate steps, and therefore can go to different players? It seems like this would still be all occurring during the "Prove Loyalty" step for Pegasus executions.
 
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Also, if there's an execution at 7+ distance, you do NOT hand off Loyalty cards. If the Mutineer sounded like it was tied to handing off Loyalty cards, then that certainly wouldn't make sense either.

Sappington wrote:
So, if we ignore Exodus and its rules, then are we thinking the Daybreak rulebook is saying pass the face-up Mutineer and face-down loyalty cards as completely separate steps, and therefore can go to different players? It seems like this would still be all occurring during the "Prove Loyalty" step for Pegasus executions.


I don't see why they couldn't go to separate players.
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Sappington wrote:
Interesting, thanks for the reply. We can actually completely ignore Exodus, and focus on just combining Daybreak and Pegasus. The Daybreak rulebook accounts for both configurations, and uses the EXACT same text, just repeated, for both configs.

So, if we ignore Exodus and its rules, then are we thinking the Daybreak rulebook is saying pass the face-up Mutineer and face-down loyalty cards as completely separate steps, and therefore can go to different players? It seems like this would still be all occurring during the "Prove Loyalty" step for Pegasus executions.


The Pegasus/Daybreak errata DOES NOT mention the handoff rules whatsoever because both rulebooks contain the excess loyalty card hand off rule. Presumably because both of the expansions cover up the Base Game Ressurection Hub with their corresponding overlays.

The Exodus/Daybreak errata DOES mention the handoff because, if a player were playing Exodus only and then went out and bought Daybreak he would experience a rule conflict: Exodus says keep the excess loyalty cards and Daybreak says to hand excess loyalty cards to other players.

Ignoring Exodus, the Daybreak/Pegasus specifies the timing for the Mutineer hand off: it's during the prove loyalty step of an execution.

The handoff of excess loyalty cards is given a very specific timing, too: during the "end turn" step of the revealed cylon's turn. (See Daybreak's rules for "handoff of excess loyalty cards.)

So, Mutineer card is distributed first during the resolution of an execution at the prove loyalty step.

The handoff of excess loyalty cards happens at the "end turn" phase of a revealing cylon's turn.

So Mutineer handoff to anyone -> Handoff Excess loyalty cards to anyone

It's when you read the Exodus errata where the hang up is: it moves the handoff of loyalty cards step from the end turn phase to the prove loyalty phase.

 
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