Jared M
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Had my first play of this as the British. Myself and the Indian player both met our victory conditions. Split win or is there a tiebreaker?

I couldn't find anything in the rules but I might have missed it.
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Robert Forrest
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There is a tiebreaker.

Quote:
7.1 Ranking Wins and Breaking Ties
During the Winter Quarters Round Victory Check Phase (6.1, 7.2), both of a Faction’s victory conditions must have a positive victory margin in order to win the game. The victory margin is the amount a Faction is beyond or short of its condition set forth below. During the final Winter Quarters Round Support Phase victory calculation (6.4.3, 7.3), both measures are netted together and the highest net measure wins.
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Harold Buchanan
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ender82 wrote:
Had my first play of this as the British. Myself and the Indian player both met our victory conditions. Split win or is there a tiebreaker?

I couldn't find anything in the rules but I might have missed it.



Hey Jared

Robert gives the correct rules reference. As it states compare both winners and the one with the highest margin wins.

If there is a tie then the rules goes on to say :

"Ties are resolved in order of Non-players, the Patriots, British,
French and Indian Factions."

If you are playing solo then a different set of considerations comes into play and is covered in Section 8.0.
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Matthew Gradberg
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I do wonder why the tiebreaker need be required. It seems reasonable that both the Patriots and French, or both the British and Indian's war goals could be accomplished simultaneously as they were not mutually exclusive.

There would still be the tension that one faction on a side satisfies its secondary victory condition and the other does not, but allowing joint victory if both satisfy their secondary victory condition in a given winter quarters seems like it would avoid needless end-game backstabbing.
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Robert Forrest
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grazadberg wrote:
I do wonder why the tiebreaker need be required. It seems reasonable that both the Patriots and French, or both the British and Indian's war goals could be accomplished simultaneously as they were not mutually exclusive.

There would still be the tension that one faction on a side satisfies its secondary victory condition and the other does not, but allowing joint victory if both satisfy their secondary victory condition in a given winter quarters seems like it would avoid needless end-game backstabbing.


Then it just becomes a pure team game. That takes away one of the most interesting things about COIN games.
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Matthew Gradberg
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Only halfway so. One side can still win without the other. You could have a scenario where the two sides act like very good allies, exclaiming they will make sure to win simultaneously... but near the end of a campaign season, one spots the chance to win without the other, and takes it.

That said, this is my first COIN game (and first GMT Games-game), so if this has been proven to ruin the balance of power/design in COIN games, then there you go.
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Oerjan Ariander
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Unless the enemy Factions also cooperate, it is quite tricky to end the game with the exact same Victory Margin as your ally even if you are deliberately trying to do so... and the tiebreaker is only used when you have the exact same VM.

(Also, note that LoD uses the term "side" to refer to a pair of allied Factions - i.e., "the two sides" are the Royalists (British&Indians) and the Rebellion (Patriots&French). It took me a couple of readings to realize that those weren't the "sides" you were talking about - I couldn't quite see why the Rebels should act like good allies to the Royalists and vice versa...)

/Oerjan
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Matthew Gradberg
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Yeah, I suppose I was thinking more in terms that there should not be a 'margin of victory' comparison if both factions on a side meet their victory conditions, and thus no tiebreaker would be required.
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Cracky McCracken
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So far, the games I've ran have ended with scores like...

Pats 10
French 5
Brits -5
Indian -10

The Patriots and Indians always have the same positive and negative score, and the same goes for the British and French. The way the faction's victory conditions are interlaced in LoD is much tighter than AA. I don't think that it's possible for a split win, but it's easy to see in the above example that the Patriots came out on top overall.
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Harold Buchanan
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Cracky wrote:
So far, the games I've ran have ended with scores like...

Pats 10
French 5
Brits -5
Indian -10

The Patriots and Indians always have the same positive and negative score, and the same goes for the British and French. The way the faction's victory conditions are interlaced in LoD is much tighter than AA. I don't think that it's possible for a split win, but it's easy to see in the above example that the Patriots came out on top overall.


Good point. Possible at the end of the game if support and opposition are virtually equal
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Oerjan Ariander
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It is possible if the Support-Opposition difference is smaller smaller than and opposite to one of the other differences; see for example this AAR.

This situation isn't very common though (e.g., in the linked AAR it came about because the Patriots over-endulged in killing Tories), so Matthew's suggestion would rather make LoD four-fifths or more of a pure team game than only halfway so.

Regards, Oerjan
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