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Subject: I think I've discovered the meaning of "grail game." rss

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Richard Davies
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I've spent the morning reading up on Kingdom Death: Monster and have become completely obsessed. I'm only about a month into my board game obsession, but I think I just discovered my first grail game. I don't know when I'll actually be able to save up enough to get a hold of this, as the price is totally outrageous, but it looks completely amazing.

The wait begins.
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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You're late to the dance...

bagbagbag.... I hope you have a large discretionary pot of gold

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Isaac Johnson
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So last year I got really in war board games and discovered my grail games in titles like europa universalis, la Grande guerre and other monsters. Got my hands on them and then watched as they slowly gathered dust. Ended up selling LGG while EU just sits there begging for some play (ill never get rid of it but not sure how ill ever pull it off).

This year, Kingdom Death gets stumbled upon and I knew id found my next grail game, like you. Only I pulled the trigger ha. Let me tell you, I've already put over 20 hours into playing, more with assembly and soon painting will be added.

The price pales in comparison to the time you will devote to this ambitious, exciti g, beautifully crafted behemoth.

Get it. Like now.
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Henry Akeley
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I agree with the above posters. I got this game and read about it daily on BGG. Always excited to play it and progress through the game. Even more excited for expansions!
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Richard Davies
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You guys really want my wife to murder me.

Speaking of expansions, this seems to be one of those that has a metric ton of them listed. Are those all extra content added by the Kickstarter or what? Are there a few that are considered especially essential? I guess it's safe to assume that the game is great without them...or at least I hope so, because I'll have a hard enough time spending $400.
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Robert Ell
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If you're a month into the hobby, I would advise against any massive investments like this.
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Henry Akeley
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The expansions will indeed add up to be a lot. However, the core game should tide you over for a year. Yes, you read that right, a year. It has SO much content in it. The core game of KD:M has so much content it would require Descent 2nd edition plus all expansions to equal the base amount of goodies you get in KD:M core.

TL;DR - Core game will tide you over for a looong time.

This game seems to be one that is going to evolve to become its own system before long. The breadth and amount of content being churned out for it is going to put it on par with leviathan games such as Descent 2nd ed, Descent 1st ed, Imp Assault, etc.
 
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Damien M
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mundanesoul wrote:
You guys really want my wife to murder me.

Speaking of expansions, this seems to be one of those that has a metric ton of them listed. Are those all extra content added by the Kickstarter or what? Are there a few that are considered especially essential? I guess it's safe to assume that the game is great without them...or at least I hope so, because I'll have a hard enough time spending $400.


They'll be added to his store eventually. All the ones being shipped right now are for Kickstarter backers.

None of them are really essential. The base game has a load of amazing content in it.
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fightcitymayor
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Elltrain wrote:
If you're a month into the hobby, I would advise against any massive investments like this.
Exactly.
Because next month it will be another "grail game,"
And the month after that it will be a different "grail game,"
And that's when you understand what Cult Of The New is all about.

BGG is full of plenty of seekers who never seem to find that magical "grail game" but BOY HOWDY they don't mind spending a lot of $$$ along the way.

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Chris Leigh
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Ask around to see if anyone nearby owns a copy! I'm always looking (and failing) to find people near me to play!
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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Epidemius wrote:
The expansions will indeed add up to be a lot. However, the core game should tide you over for a year. Yes, you read that right, a year. It has SO much content in it. The core game of KD:M has so much content it would require Descent 2nd edition plus all expansions to equal the base amount of goodies you get in KD:M core.

TL;DR - Core game will tide you over for a looong time.

This game seems to be one that is going to evolve to become its own system before long. The breadth and amount of content being churned out for it is going to put it on par with leviathan games such as Descent 2nd ed, Descent 1st ed, Imp Assault, etc.


So 2 copies of the base game should last twice as long or longer... 2+ years?
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Richard Davies
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fightcitymayor wrote:
Elltrain wrote:
If you're a month into the hobby, I would advise against any massive investments like this.
Exactly.
Because next month it will be another "grail game,"
And the month after that it will be a different "grail game,"
And that's when you understand what Cult Of The New is all about.

BGG is full of plenty of seekers who never seem to find that magical "grail game" but BOY HOWDY they don't mind spending a lot of $$$ along the way.



To be clear, it will be quite a while before I can even think about getting this. If I'm fortunate, I might be able to get it as a birthday gift in six months assuming it is still in stock. Even then, no guarantee. My wife and I just booked a trip to Seoul and that's where all of our spare cash is currently committed, plus our dog just had to have spinal surgery for a ruptured disc which was far from cheap.

The reason I call this a grail game is precisely because it's going to be a long road to getting a hold of it for me. But from what I have seen about the game, I believe that it could very well be worth it. (My current favorite game - with very limited experience - is Eldritch Horror, if that helps give you an idea of what I'm into.) Cooperative, incredibly thematic, heavy elements of roleplaying...it looks unbelievable in a lot of ways.

Maybe I'll have changed my mind in six months, but that doesn't seem likely. We'll see. In the meantime, I'm hoping I can get a copy of something like Descent to tide me over for a while.
 
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Richard Davies
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blunder1983 wrote:
Ask around to see if anyone nearby owns a copy! I'm always looking (and failing) to find people near me to play!


Great idea, Chris! I'm in a couple of meetup.com groups for my area so I'll have to see if anyone's gotten a hold of this.

I will definitely not thereafter learn the art of cat burglary solely to extricate the game from their home. whistle
 
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Hellena Handbasket
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This game's awesome. Absolutely amazing. Totally worth the 400 dollars folks have to pay now. I put probably 100 hours into the base game alone and never lost my love for it.

That said, I'd still recommend you wait a month or two to think about what attracts you to the game before pulling the trigger. Folks new to the board gaming hobby tend to develop radically different tastes as they play. As good as Kingdom Death is, there's the very real possibility that your tastes develop away from what it presents after getting more board game experience. I started a few years back with an obsession with area control and worker placement games, for instance. I still like them well enough, and don't regret purchasing the ones I own, but I doubt I'd buy another and the ones I do own aren't seeing much play.

Most board game enthusiasts have a fairly similar story. The best way to protect yourself, early on, from making large purchases you're liable to regret is to practice standard consumer protection behaviors. Wait a while before you decide you want to game enough to purchase it. Do what you're doing right now and reach out to people who have already purchased the product to see what they feel about it. Try to arrange a session or two of play before you purchase the game. (Try the game either via arranging a session with someone who already owns it or by finding a way to play it online).

Sorry to be sort of harpy/That Guy. Just would hate to see someone end up regretting a purchase of this magnitude. Feel free to keep asking questions on the forums and like here at BGG. We're a good group, I think, and love talking about the game.
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Eric Randolph
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Epidemius wrote:
The expansions will indeed add up to be a lot. However, the core game should tide you over for a year. Yes, you read that right, a year. It has SO much content in it. The core game of KD:M has so much content it would require Descent 2nd edition plus all expansions to equal the base amount of goodies you get in KD:M core.

TL;DR - Core game will tide you over for a looong time.

This game seems to be one that is going to evolve to become its own system before long. The breadth and amount of content being churned out for it is going to put it on par with leviathan games such as Descent 2nd ed, Descent 1st ed, Imp Assault, etc.

To be fair, you can almost get everything for Descent on CSI for the same price as Kingdom Death. But with expansions this looks to be a monumental game.
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Brett Burleigh II
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DifferentPerson wrote:
Epidemius wrote:
The expansions will indeed add up to be a lot. However, the core game should tide you over for a year. Yes, you read that right, a year. It has SO much content in it. The core game of KD:M has so much content it would require Descent 2nd edition plus all expansions to equal the base amount of goodies you get in KD:M core.

TL;DR - Core game will tide you over for a looong time.

This game seems to be one that is going to evolve to become its own system before long. The breadth and amount of content being churned out for it is going to put it on par with leviathan games such as Descent 2nd ed, Descent 1st ed, Imp Assault, etc.

To be fair, you can almost get everything for Descent on CSI for the same price as Kingdom Death. But with expansions this looks to be a monumental game.


You're right about that.
But then you're stuck with Descent. thumbsdown

Compromising.
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Blue Dino Studio
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While KDM is so incredibly epic, a lot of it has to do with the hobby of assembling and painting. If you haven't tried your hand at working with miniatures, I would do that first. Half of my enjoyment has come from the 50% of time that I'm NOT playing it.

I recommend buying one or two of the promos and putting them together before investing into the base game/expansions. Some people see sprues and never end up putting it together/playing. Trust me, I've been down that road with Warhammer, Warmachine, etc.
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Stephanie Gustafsson
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jwreschnig wrote:
I'm just saying, I just don't remember a part in any Grail romance where they found it but then got bored after a few drinks and tried a bunch of other cups.


I fell over laughing.

KDM is a grail game to me and I have about 100+ board games. I feel fulfilled owning it, looking at the box, looking at the components, making the figures, painting it, thinking about playing it, playing it, talking about it, petting it occasionally and trying to help the community grow.

As for Descent 2.0. That game was sadly not for me. I just couldn't care about the heroes and what they did, so it sits all lonely and sad in a box after one play... Then again I did not do my research and just assumed I would like it based on the publisher and game type.
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Bibious P
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It'll be there in six months and you'll still be obsessed with it.
You are being smart its a big purchase but I just got my game last week and as a previous player of Warmachine and Warhammer and other mini games the content justifies the cost. Finally told my wife what it really cost while we were playing and she said "yeah that makes sense it was worth it!"

Sorry to hear about your pup hope s/he is doing better now.
Enjoy the trip and enjoy the obsession I tried resisting for my Birthday in May I lasted 10 days before I bought it

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Götz Kirchhauser
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Lanfearious wrote:
KDM is a grail game to me and I have about 100+ board games. I feel fulfilled owning it, looking at the box, looking at the components, making the figures, painting it, thinking about playing it, playing it, talking about it, petting it occasionally and trying to help the community grow.


You, Miss (or Ma'am) just made my day!!!
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jwreschnig wrote:

So I realize that "grail game" is not super well-defined, but if you've "discovered" two in the same year, and then gave them up a year later... maybe you don't mean quite the same thing when you invoke the term as everyone else does? And if anything, maybe that experience is a hint to be a bit more patient and subdued when approaching future games?

I'm just saying, I just don't remember a part in any Grail romance where they found it but then got bored after a few drinks and tried a bunch of other cups.


I always thought the "grail" part meant it was something unobtainable that you're desperately searching for. So the moment you've bought it it ceases to be a grail game anyway.
 
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Matt D
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cormor321 wrote:
jwreschnig wrote:

So I realize that "grail game" is not super well-defined, but if you've "discovered" two in the same year, and then gave them up a year later... maybe you don't mean quite the same thing when you invoke the term as everyone else does? And if anything, maybe that experience is a hint to be a bit more patient and subdued when approaching future games?

I'm just saying, I just don't remember a part in any Grail romance where they found it but then got bored after a few drinks and tried a bunch of other cups.


I always thought the "grail" part meant it was something unobtainable that you're desperately searching for. So the moment you've bought it it ceases to be a grail game anyway.


Agreed. I always interpreted "grail game" as "hard to find", not "easy to find but super expensive".

I mean, it's always a subjective term. For me, my "grail game" was for the longest time a wooden tiled version of Acquire. Not necessarily expensive, or even impossible to find -- just was something I really wanted but couldn't find within my budget.

KDM is I am sure a great game, and I really would relish having a shot to play it at some point, but my annual gaming budget wouldn't cover a quarter of its MSRP, so I don't even want to look long enough to fall in love...
 
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Richard Davies
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Miniature advice request:

Do I need anything special to put the miniatures together for this game - and can anyone suggest a good starting toolkit if so? Also, can you recommend a more affordable cooperative miniatures game that I could use as a primer? Thanks!
 
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Bibious P
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I think getting a 'primer' is a good idea if you are new to the hobby.
I would recommend Castle Ravenloft. Its a pretty straight forward D&D Based coop dungeon crawler with minis already put together so you can just read the book and play. Slight Horror theme which seems in line with you liking Eldritch Horror and looking at KDM.
It was my first game when I got back into board games and we loved it.
cost probably around 30-40 bucks.
it sent us down the path of scooping up Co-Op Dungeon Crawlers left and right.
The other advantage of this, when you are finally ready to buy KDM you will appreciate the game so much more compared to what's out there.

your second bit, to put the minis together you can get a simple cutter (I have the citadel one,) a file or some sandpaper and some glue. Lots of threads on here with specific links to what people like, my opinion whatever is easiest for you to get will be fine.

hope that helps
 
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Isaac Johnson
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No they were/are grail games for me. La Grande Guerre at the time was suuuuper hard to find for anything less than like 500 dollars. Then the company just so happened to find an old stock in their long closed warehouse, and I snagged a copy for 120 bucks. Couldn't resist as I had become obsessed with WW1 and this seemed the most ambitious take on it.


Never got bored with it, but realized after almost a year that it was never going to get to the table, and people were still selling it for 300 plus dollars! So I figured why let it rot when I could sell it for profit (sold it for like 180 bucks), still sell it cheaper than it was going for, and ensure that it find a happy home where it would actually get played.

So yea...it was and still is in a sense a grail game for me, in that if I had infinite time/space, friends who were also interested in the subject matter, and could read and retain nigh 100 pages of dense rules, then it would be THE game I want to play. Same goes for Europa Universalis.

You're right though I guess, "grail" must mean different things to us...
 
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