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Subject: Wargames for 3+ players with no individual luck rss

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Hawaka Winada
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An interesting game of WW1, more economic and very light on the wargame aspects, is Imperial. The players represent central bankers who invest in the major powers in order to wage war on minor countries and each other. The player who has invested the most in a country gets to make all of its decisions. The goal is to invest in the countries that industrialize the most and gain the most territory. Military units are simply armies and navies and combat is deterministic; there is no luck in the game after setup. Imperial has economic decisions of how much to industrialize, to produce units or buy mercenaries, and when to force countries to pay dividends to their investors, who can then invest further and possibly take control of a country away from another player. There are no formal alliances so the countries usually fight completely ahistorically. Imperial is more a game of the causes of WW1 than a simulation of the war itself.
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Karan R
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Maria mostly fits your bill
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Walt
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Imperial is not a war game. It's an economic game with a weird title. Players who play it as a war game will lose to players playing it as an economic game.

Antike II, also by Mac Gerdts, is closer, but more of a Civilization game. Combat is there, but it's not dominant.
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Gary Trevor
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How about Kingmaker
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Pete Belli
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Emperor of China is a vintage title (available on that auction site, etc.) and meets many of your requirements:

Cult Of The New? A deluxe Euro with cooperative play and elements of a card-driven wargame… published in 1972
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Geoffrey Burrell
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You might want to try the game Ogre.
 
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Sam Carroll
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gameon39481 wrote:
I'm much more interested in political/economical/historical aspects than actual "combat".


Sounds like you're not actually looking for a wargame, but a political/historical game that may involve some combat. If so, perhaps you should browse this list: A comparative list of civilization games for a start.
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Aaron Yoder
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Napoleon's Triumph has no luck at all and can be played on teams. It is also one of the most obtuse, greatest games ever made. I mean, it is incredible, but learning it is a bear. It isn't so much like learning a new game as it is learning how to game all over again. I'd say this is a must-play if it weren't so hard to find.

Maria has some randomness, but really just in the cards you draw. They force you to make strategic decisions based on the cards, and to guess whether or not your opponent has more (or better) cards, but they're not deterministic. You can still win if you have crappy cards. I've seen it done more than once. The game is unique (how often do 3 players control 5 nations?).

1714: The Case of the Catalans. Another great, unique game. No deterministic randomness at all. There's a card draw, and players all choose from the same set of cards, by which players determine actions and income and next turns' order of play. You're all allied, which means no direct attacks against players. But, there can only be 1 winner, which means the game becomes an exercise in "how much can I dick over my friends?" Excellent wargame for Euro lovers, very different.

Struggle of Empires is super ugly but has a lot of great mechanics. But...there is a deterministic dice roll. You can upset it by having more troops there and by purchasing certain upgrades. Losing the dice roll only forces you to lose 1 unit, and attacks must be carefully planned, as they cost you money and potentially unrest. What I'm saying is that the dice are a small part of a great game.
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Under the paving stones, the beach
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spartax wrote:

Sounds like you're not actually looking for a wargame, but a political/historical game that may involve some combat. If so, perhaps you should browse this list: A comparative list of civilization games for a start.


This list may well be of interest as well- Simulations that are not war games

Unfortunately, while I play lots of these types of games the "no individual random elements" bit it is stumping me somewhat.
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Chris
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nomoredroids wrote:

1714: The Case of the Catalans. Another great, unique game. No deterministic randomness at all. There's a card draw, and players all choose from the same set of cards, by which players determine actions and income and next turns' order of play. You're all allied, which means no direct attacks against players. But, there can only be 1 winner, which means the game becomes an exercise in "how much can I dick over my friends?" Excellent wargame for Euro lovers, very different.


I looooved the one play I've had of Struggle and Maria so far... 1714 looks really really interesting! Thanks for mentioning it!
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Joe Sallen
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Imperial and Antike are "no individual luck" wargames. Each has a "version 2" that's really just a better balanced version of the game.

Also, Churchill comes quite close. Each player has their own deck of advisors so there is luck in the draw, but generally cards are well balanced and that element of random never bothered me (I'm generally a RNG-hater). The dice that are rolled in the game generally are used to determine victory on the fronts of the war, which affects everyone. The game system feels similar to twilight struggle with a semi-coop vibe. While it's not random-free it didn't trip my dice despondency

EDIT: Also, Kemet has a fairly low luck factor in the form of the small cards that you may choose to play or hold on to during battle. I've heard good things about Blood Rage dealing with luck. Drafting cards evens out the luck factor of the draw. I would further add Pax Pamir (and Pax Porfiriana, though I've only played Pamir) because it essentially has a drafting line similar to Through the Ages (which could also fit your description) and no random draw. I would say that Pax Pamir can feel really swingy when you don't know the game well.
 
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Under the paving stones, the beach
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gameon39481 wrote:

Yes, in this thread and my own research, I'm realizing I guess I must stick mostly to Histogame's offerings. Seems most believe simulations (war or otherwise) are uninteresting if the only variables are random setup and other players' actions, and need some sort of individual luck component. Possibly this stems from the popularity of solo versions? Not sure.


I don't think so necessarily. There's certainly some luckless simulations with a lot of praise on here. It's merely a personal preference for me.

If anything, I think it's just how those games have mostly developed over time.
 
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