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Subject: Ranger Card thoughts rss

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Jeremy Steward
Canada
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Cards here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/megacongames/myth-journ...

Best Cards:
Rift Stalker: It costs 3 AP, but if you keep it alive, but it will more than pay for itself, and since there are many cards that play off of it, this is a top priority.

Call of the Master: Damage per success is very powerful and will amp up depending how many d10 buffs you have. The bonus from the rift stalker is a cherry. This is a very powerful attack.

Good Cards:
Scent of the Wounded: While a touch expensive and you get no immediate benefit but it is an extra damage without an action nor threat. It also combos well with To the End.

Okay Cards:

Circling the Prey: 1 AP and you really aren't guaranteed any extra damage. It combos with To the End, but really should have been 0 AP.

To the End: I really like this card, but frankly, it costs too much AP. 3 AP gets you 1 extra attack which is 1-2 damage. It does get better when you combo it with the other 2 command cards, but those also cost 1 AP each. And since these cards don't have an immediate effect, you are often activating the darkness without reducing the number of enemies on the board. This honestly, should be a 2 AP card, and circling the prey a 0 AP card.

The Perfect Shot: Unlike the Warrior's similar card, the archer is the only novice class with a Critical Card, so it is not as good. But the Ranger often has a larger hand (from your bow) and a smaller deck (from arrows being in your quiver so it can work.

Quickload: Since your quiver automatically loads 1 ammo, this card only works with you have 2 ammo in hand, and you need to be able to use that extra ammo for it to be worth it, which means Orion's. It will be useful sometimes but not all of the time. Decent but not a high priority.

Poor Cards:
Hip Shot: Maybe it is just my playstyle, but i think this is bad for the same reason I think Wayfarer's Ruse is bad. The Archer simply doesn't get hit very often. Most enemies top priority is proximity and with of range 5-6, very rarely is he/she attacked and even if he was on the radar, and range 6, most enemies won't even reach him/her and go elsewhere anyway.

Outright Bad:
Eyes of the Outworld: What a waste of a card, for modules you know what is coming up, and for adventures you choose what to populate. This would be better in a DM style game, but here it is just wierd.

Special:
Set Snare: Range 4 is a lot better than the Warriors range 1, but the archer probably isn't the best class for this since it relys on combos.

Overall some really strong dps cards on an already strong dps class. But, the Ranger will be racking up the AP like noone else, which is fine.

As a special note: the Skald has a card called [Hero] Dealt with Death which was already really awesome with the Archer. With the Ranger and that card he/she will be an Avatar of Death!
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David Jackson
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I'm not as well versed in archer as I am in Soldier, but thought I would chip in my thoughts. I will say up front that I am more interested in the Duelist branch for the archer - for whatever reason, I've never enjoyed playing a 'pet' reliant class (board games, MMO's, or otherwise).


Rift Stalker: 3 AP hurts, but if you keep it healthy, it will be king of the AP to benefit ratio. The high movement value is nice. Pounce is likewise an excellent effect (with the 3 movement), though it will be streaky. You're looking at about a 50% chance of it triggering, overall. With the movement, you should be able to attack and still keep it out of harm's way. I can see it being frustrating starting out if this thing is on the bottom of your deck, as you are looking at 5-6 Hero Cycles before you can play it, and there's going to be a lot of junk cards that utilize the pet along the way. Pretty obvious first addition to the deck.

Circling the Prey: Decent effect if the dice are kind, but I almost feel that 1AP for a gamble is a bit much.

Hip Shot: Combo card, but not super limiting in that regard, as there are a handful of dodge and/or counterattack cards available. How often are you going to be the target of attacks to utilize those cards, though?

Set Snare: It is what it is. At least it's ranged. As I said on the Warrior thread, it would be nice if these had even a slight secondary use (NCA bonus or some such) so that they aren't dead cards 90% of the time.

Scent of the Wounded: 1 Damage for 1AP. By itself, not overly remarkable.

To the End: Here's a chance for the other 'meh' pet buffs to shine, but I don't have a happy warm feeling about this. First, It's 3AP. Terrible by itself without other Command tokens. It would be easier to combo if you could choose when to use the tokens on your pet, instead of being forced to use the effect on it's next attack. Not attacking with the pet in order to save the tokens until you can pull off the combo is also extremely counterproductive. And even if you manage to have all of the cards in your hand on one Hero Cycle, you're looking at 5AP to pull them all off. I feel this should have had a "-1AP per command token already on pet" clause or something.


Call of the Master: Potentially lots of damage to one target. Doesn't burn through ammo like Orion's, but also isn't nearly as flexible. Another 3AP card. Seems like it should have a "Critical" keyword.

Eyes of the Outworld: Odd.

The Perfect Shot: Lot's of damage. Hopefully some other classes will get a Critical keyword card. Another 3AP card.

Quickload: Not terrible. I doubt that threat will be a huge issue with a good chunk of your damage going through the pet now, so it likely won't hurt to keep this going. Maybe we will see some more quivers with different effects than auto-ready to go along with this.


Overall: Probably not something I would want to play. The AP costs seem high. I am trying to think on how to best build it - conventional wisdom would say that due to pet, you would need less Ammo in the deck, but on the other hand, Orion's is still the bomb (especially Novice version), and ammo-hungry. Sadly, I would almost be more inclined to slot the pet in for the ongoing damage, ignore the Command cards and Eyes of the Outworld, and still build primarily for ammo/ranged damage.

I'm sure it's been play tested to death and balanced, and I'm missing something. The "free" damage every refresh phase from the pet shouldn't be undersold, but I don't know how I feel about Ranger overall.

With the theme/name/look of the pet, I was really expecting some stealth/attack mechanics. But, that could be in the pipeline later.

I'll be looking forward to the Duelist reveal for my Archer.
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Jeremy Steward
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I will definitely be going Ranger with my Archer. I spent many years with a hunter in wow and this is definitely what they are channeling here.

The pet itself and Masters Call are enough to make me excited. And my second character is a skald, so Perfect Shot will be great. There is enough chaff in the Archer deck to make it work (It is rare to make any attack not named Orion's Tears or Kharon's Payment)

I think the command cards are a missed opportunity but easily houseruleable since AP is their only issue.

Eyes of the Outworld really has me scratching my head.
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Tobias Loeffler
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IMHO you are missing two crucial points in assessing these cards:

1) Threat:
To my knowledge, attacks of your ally don't generate threat for your hero - and that's a BIG thing. (Please correct me, if I'm wrong here!)

2) Availability:
Once the pet is out, you can attack EVERY refresh phase. That's really, really powerful on it's own.

I think the impact of the ally on the game without any support cards will already be pretty big. Just add the ´"Rift Stalker" to a fresh Archer with brown equipment. Then add the "best" card of the JM Solider to a fresh Soldier and compare the two.
You will see, that once the ally is out, the archer will be way ahead of the soldier in flexibility, tankiness and damage.

IMO the power of the ally is the reason, why the command cards "suck" in the first place and the others have such high AP costs.

Just my 2cents.


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David Jackson
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I don't know if anything was 'missed'. I think everyone is aware of the pet's strengths. The Archer will continue to be strong with this path, between the pet and the ability to fire over enemies.

I still don't find the card selection that interesting, fun, or what have you.

AP generation is a bit of a sticking point for me - not only due to the "am I getting my AP worth here" standpoint. It's also more enjoyable to actually get to play the Heroes for a bit before you have to stop and run a darkness cycle. Triggering a darkness cycle every other card would get exhausting. I don't particularly like seeing so many 3+ AP cards pop up.

The warrior by comparison had a lot of zero/1 AP cards, the ability to lower AP cost of other heroes, and the ability to reduce another attack to 0AP. The thought of playing the Warrior and slapping on Truth (Shield from RotR) makes me giddy.

Perhaps the seemingly higher-than-it-should-be AP cost on the newer cards was to offset the 'free' damage from the pet. But then I wonder if you wouldn't be better off running the old build up ammo and fire off orion's strategy while the pet attacks. Dealing damage while barely adding AP, rather than blowing up the AP meter with the new cards.

For my own unsubstantiated prediction; trying to tank a lot of the stuff in JM with a Rift Stalker will result in a dead Rift Stalker. More from a low health pool standpoint than a mitigation standpoint.
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Tobias Loeffler
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CarelessOpossum wrote:

Perhaps the seemingly higher-than-it-should-be AP cost on the newer cards was to offset the 'free' damage from the pet. But then I wonder if you wouldn't be better off running the old build up ammo and fire off orion's strategy while the pet attacks. Dealing damage while barely adding AP, rather than blowing up the AP meter with the new cards.


Yeap, that was what I was thinking as well. Just add the pet, ignore the commands and treat the pet as an ongoing attack card. For 3 AP that's pretty good.

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Jeremy Steward
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I agree, the Rift Stalker is pretty amazing. You do have to use its speed to do hit and run attacks to keep it alive, but if you do, it will do work.

While the Command cards are not actions and dont give threat, the shear amount of AP with no immediate benefit is real dealbreaker. I am highly tempted to houserule.

And while I agree that the best Ranger cards are much higher impact than the warrior cards, the warrior fills a much different role and is on a strong base, so Im not worried.

I also forgot to talk about the name plates which were spoiled in the kickstarter.

The warrior has a pretty amazing nameplate : +1 TN (defense), +1d10, +1FD, 2 MP, 9 HP, 3 courage.

The ranger on the other hand, has a pretty lackluster nameplate: +2 d10, +1 FD, Ready 1 ammo at start of act, 2 MP, 6 HP, 6 Courage.
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