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Subject: First Play.. will be posting questions here throughout rss

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Aaron Bedard
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After over a year of sitting on the shelf, mocking me, I have decided to finally man-up, break the shrink wrap and face this thing.

I got a few plays of Andean Abyss in when it first came out and loved the system. My games where always played with people more familiar with the game than myself and I found myself never having to stray very far from my own factions Player Aid and when I made mistakes my wrist would be slightly slapped.

That was a few years ago now, I haven't messed with COIN since, and sadly I don't have the luxury of having someone to teach me this title. I'm pretty sure i will be playing this one mostly solo, which is how I enjoy a great percentage of my gaming.

But it is a theme that I am drawn to more than any of the other titles, I feel confident and determined that FiTL will be the COIN game that I keep in my collection and continue to come back to.

I have done the work these past few days. Read slowly through the first section of the Play Book, watched, I think, 4 different video tutorials. Flipped through the rules. Visited the FAQ thread here, and am now diving in

There reaches a point when learning more complex games like this where I simply hit a wall and can't dig anymore.

I just want answers and need someone who knows the game to give them to me. Even if it's super obvious, even if it's right there in front of my face, sometimes a simple "yes' or "no" will push me through a wall, that I tend to get stuck behind for way too long, and get me on my way.

So that's what I'm hoping to use this thread for. I'm going to play through this short scenario, I'm going to ignore the bots and play it as a two-player game. I'm not concerned with strategy or what these factions need to do to win. I just want to get the engine humming and understand how it all works.

When I come upon a question that I can't answer myself quickly, I am going to post it here as if you were sitting across the table from me..I apologize if some of these have been gone over and answered here in other threads. I can't look anymore, it's time to try to play.

Thank you very much in advance for your patience, your help here, and any advice or tips you may have to share.



I have two questions to start:

Question One:
Are there special rules in place for drawing a Coup Card on the very first card of the Game, or just play out the Coup phase as normal?


Question Two:
Can US Troops preform a SWEEP operation in the space that they begin their turn in? Without having to actually move anywhere?
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Russ Williams
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RawDealDemo wrote:
Question One:
Are there special rules in place for drawing a Coup Card on the very first card of the Game, or just play out the Coup phase as normal?

Just follow the rules as written. (Some people have house variants to prevent this from happening, but in principle there is nothing special about it in the rules as written.)


Quote:
Question Two:
Can US Troops preform a SWEEP operation in the space that they begin their turn in? Without having to actually move anywhere?

Troops may sweep in place:
3.2.3 wrote:
Then, in each selected space, Activate (1.4.3) 1 enemy Guerrilla
for each of your cubes (moved or already there)

(Note the "moved or already there".)
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Aaron Bedard
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Russ, thank you.

Question Three:

looking at the MARCH operation, with full understanding that LOCS are considered spaces. The second bullet point in rule 1.3.6 concerning adjacency is (embarrassingly) doing my head in..

• Provinces that would touch but for separation by a LoC

So, two provinces separated by an LoC without a town between them are NOT considered adjacent and would require first a March operation onto the LoC?

In other words, is Phuoc Long NOT adjacent to Quang Duc?
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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RawDealDemo wrote:
Russ, thank you.

Question Three:

looking at the MARCH operation, with full understanding that LOCS are considered spaces. The second bullet point in rule 1.3.6 concerning adjacency is (embarrassingly) doing my head in..

• Provinces that would touch but for separation by a LoC

So, two provinces separated by an LoC without a town between them are NOT considered adjacent and would require first a March operation onto the LoC?

In other words, is Phuoc Long NOT adjacent to Quang Duc?


Incorrect. Provinces that would touch directly, but have an LOC as a "border" between them are considered directly adjacent in spite of the LOC.
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Russ Williams
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RawDealDemo wrote:
Question Three:

looking at the MARCH operation, with full understanding that LOCS are considered spaces. The second bullet point in rule 1.3.6 concerning adjacency is (embarrassingly) doing my head in..

• Provinces that would touch but for separation by a LoC

So, two provinces separated by an LoC without a town between them are NOT considered adjacent and would require first a March operation onto the LoC?

if the LoC is the spaces' common border, then they ARE adjacent. They would be literally touching, except for the (thin!) LOC separating them. Think of it this way: the LOC is not thick enough to make them not be (practically speaking) adjacent. It's just a road.
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Aaron Bedard
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Huge. Got it. Thank you both very much.
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mark mcleod
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Can anyone tell me if Quang Duc counts as being adjacent to Cam Ranh via Route 11 and Da Lat? I am thinking yes.
 
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Colin Taylor
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markmc wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Quang Duc counts as being adjacent to Cam Ranh via Route 11 and Da Lat? I am thinking yes.


I don't think so. As the Rulebook example suggests, Route 11 and Quang Duc are adjacent, via Da Lat, but Cam Ranh is not.

Thanks,

Colin
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Oerjan Ariander
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markmc wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Quang Duc counts as being adjacent to Cam Ranh via Route 11 and Da Lat? I am thinking yes.

No. If you removed the LoC, Quang Duc would not be touching Cam Rahn; therefore they are not adjacent.

A Sweep Operation aĺlows you to first move onto a Loc and then (if there are no enemy units on that LoC) continue into a space that is adjacent to that LoC. IOW, as long as there are no NVA or VC units on the Da Lat-Cam Rahn LoC it is possible to Sweep from Quang Duc via Da Lat to Cam Rahn in one move. (The ARVN Transport Special Activity works in a similar way.)

A March Op OTOH must go directly into an adjacent space, so NVA/VC units in Quang Duc cannot go all the way to Cam Rahn in one move - they'd have to stop on the LoC (or, skipping the LoC entirely, in Khahn Hoa or Bihn Tuy) after the first March and enter Cam Rahn with another March Op later in the game.

Regards,
Oerjan
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Russ Williams
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markmc wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Quang Duc counts as being adjacent to Cam Ranh via Route 11 and Da Lat? I am thinking yes.

No, they are totally not adjacent.

Adjacency is not about moving a long distance along a road; it's about stepping across a road which is itself along the border between 2 spaces.

E.g. Quang Duc is adjacent to Binh Tuy (step across Route 20).
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Aaron Bedard
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Question Four:

Coup Phase. I'm looking closely at the Sabotage rule and just want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. There are no Guerrillas on any LoCs, but there ARE some cities without COIN control.

So in the Sabotage Phase I would place Sabotage markers on all LoCs that are adjacent to cities without COIN control and then lower Econ by the value of each sabotaged line?

In the example of Cam Tho being Uncontrolled, but again having no guerrillas upon them, would I place a Sabotage marker on The Mekong (or BOTH sides of the Mekong?) and onto Route 4 and lower Econ accordingly?

Thank you.
 
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Russ Williams
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RawDealDemo wrote:
Coup Phase. I'm looking closely at the Sabotage rule and just want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. There are no Guerrillas on any LoCs, but there ARE some cities without COIN control.

So in the Sabotage Phase I would place Sabotage markers on all LoCs that are adjacent to cities without COIN control and then lower Econ by the value of each sabotaged line?

Right:
rules wrote:
6.2.1 Sabotage. Sabotage (3.3.4) each unSabotaged LoC where
Insurgent Guerrillas outnumber COIN pieces or adjacent to a City
without COIN Control (until no Sabotage markers remain, VC
chooses which spaces first).
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Aaron Bedard
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Perfect. Thank you again, Russ.

I did read that section over and over again before making the post. The language is just so compact that I keep finding myself worried that I have to be missing something, that there must be more to it than that.

Not sure why I'm having such a difficult time giving myself over to this style of rulebook. It really is all right there.
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Oerjan Ariander
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RawDealDemo wrote:
In the example of Cam Tho being Uncontrolled, but again having no guerrillas upon them, would I place a Sabotage marker on The Mekong (or BOTH sides of the Mekong?) and onto Route 4 and lower Econ accordingly?

All three branches of the Mekong would be Sabotaged in this case, yes. (Route 4 is part of the Mekong too - this can be important for certain Events.)

Regarding Econ: you set the Econ value to the total of Unsabotaged LoCs, i.e., 15-(Sabotaged LoCs).

(I've seen some players reduce the current Econ value by the value of the Sabotaged LoCs instead, with the result that their Econ hit zero after a few Campaigns and was never reset... don't do that!)

/Oerjan
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mark mcleod
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Oerjan wrote:
markmc wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Quang Duc counts as being adjacent to Cam Ranh via Route 11 and Da Lat? I am thinking yes.

No. If you removed the LoC, Quang Duc would not be touching Cam Rahn; therefore they are not adjacent.

A Sweep Operation aĺlows you to first move onto a Loc and then (if there are no enemy units on that LoC) continue into a space that is adjacent to that LoC. IOW, as long as there are no NVA or VC units on the Da Lat-Cam Rahn LoC it is possible to Sweep from Quang Duc via Da Lat to Cam Rahn in one move. (The ARVN Transport Special Activity works in a similar way.)

A March Op OTOH must go directly into an adjacent space, so NVA/VC units in Quang Duc cannot go all the way to Cam Rahn in one move - they'd have to stop on the LoC (or, skipping the LoC entirely, in Khahn Hoa or Bihn Tuy) after the first March and enter Cam Rahn with another March Op later in the game.

Regards,
Oerjan


Great,so I can Sweep from Cam Rahn to Quang Duc.

Thanks Oerjan, Russ and Colin
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Aaron Bedard
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Question Five:

I just want to make certain. I apologize if the answer is super obvious.

The Young Turks special ability,

Each ARVN Govern Special Activity adds +2 to Patronage

I'm assuming the "Each" in that sentence means that if I'm performing Govern activities on two spaces in a turn that Patronage will go up +4?

 
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Colin Taylor
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RawDealDemo wrote:
Question Five:

I just want to make certain. I apologize if the answer is super obvious.

The Young Turks special ability,

Each ARVN Govern Special Activity adds +2 to Patronage

I'm assuming the "Each" in that sentence means that if I'm performing Govern activities on two spaces in a turn that Patronage will go up +4?



Hi Aaron,

It's not immediately obvious from the card, but when they are unclear, I always head for the Playbook. In there, each card gets a little more detail, and the text says:

FitL Playbook wrote:


The bonus Patronage is +2 per each occasion of a Govern
Special Activity, not per space.


I hope this helps.

Colin
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Jason Sherlock
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ColintheFlea wrote:
RawDealDemo wrote:
Question Five:

I just want to make certain. I apologize if the answer is super obvious.

The Young Turks special ability,

Each ARVN Govern Special Activity adds +2 to Patronage

I'm assuming the "Each" in that sentence means that if I'm performing Govern activities on two spaces in a turn that Patronage will go up +4?



Hi Aaron,

It's not immediately obvious from the card, but when they are unclear, I always head for the Playbook. In there, each card gets a little more detail, and the text says:

FitL Playbook wrote:


The bonus Patronage is +2 per each occasion of a Govern
Special Activity, not per space.


I hope this helps.

Colin


This is very similar to the starting leader that gives you Aid for each Train Operation. It is +5 for each actual Operation, not for each group trained.

By the way, this is a great idea having a single thread where you questions can get answered as they come up.
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Colin Taylor
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jackalope wrote:


This is very similar to the starting leader that gives you Aid for each Train Operation. It is +5 for each actual Operation, not for each group trained.


Yes, you are exactly correct:

FitL Playbook wrote:

Tip. The bonus Aid is +5 per each occasion of an ARVN Training
Operation, not per space.


Colin
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Aaron Bedard
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Colin, Jason, thank you both.

I'm glad I came here with this one. It did seem quite powerful.. Will remove that extra +2 Patronage now..laugh
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RawDealDemo wrote:
Colin, Jason, thank you both.

I'm glad I came here with this one. It did seem quite powerful.. Will remove that extra +2 Patronage now..laugh


Even at only +2 per activity, it is very powerful, especially if Mandate of Heaven is in play. Try to prevent letting ARVN get this capability if the Young Turks haven't come out yet.
 
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Aaron Bedard
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Hello gents,

Third play of this.. most of the game has really started to click and turns have been spent more on looking at strategical situations and less on "am I doing this right."

But right now I'm looking at The Trail and have always been a little thrown by this statement, and just want to make absolutely sure I have my head wrapped around it.

"Marching NVA Guerillas and troops (not VC) may continue moving into additional spaces (paying once only for each added destination) if the previous destination space was in Laos or Cambodia, the trail value is above 0, and the March is not a LimOp."


So that means if the Trail was at 1 or better, I could take a group of NVA troops or guerillas and move them from: North Vietnam, onto the Trail and then trough: Central Laos, Southern Laos, NE Cambodia, The Fishook, The Parrots Beak, and finally into Kien Gian (which is in South Vietnam) in a single March Operation, for the price of six resources?

And if the Trail was at 4 I could do the above move for 0 Resources?

But neither if using a LimOp?

I thank you all again for your help.



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Oerjan Ariander
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Correct.

/Oerjan
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