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Subject: PC Version question rss

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Kristof Bodric
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Hi, I've been trying to play the PC version versus the AI and for the life of me I cannot figure out two things:

1. When you play an opponent's card, how do you make the event occur first before the OPs are used (e.g. De Gaulle)

2. How do you use "UN Intervention" with an opponent's card

I've tried clicking on everything and I cannot seem to be able to find the option.

Thanks!
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Alex
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1-You drag the card to the Trigger Event slot first. You will be allowed to drag the card once more when the event is resolved.

2-You drag UN card in the Event slot. It will let you choose a card after.
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Jonathan Kinney
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As a follow up to these questions. Does anyone know how Salt Negotiations work? I triggered the event, it took me to the discard pile but I could figure out how to select a card. I clicked. I dragged. Nothing seemed to work. Frustrating.
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Alex
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jonocop wrote:
As a follow up to these questions. Does anyone know how Salt Negotiations work? I triggered the event, it took me to the discard pile but I could figure out how to select a card. I clicked. I dragged. Nothing seemed to work. Frustrating.


Had some problem figuring it out as well.
If I remember correctly, you need to drag the chosen card in the middle of the screen, where a "selected card" box will appear.


"Ask Not" event is also not very intuitive. Once you have chosen the card(s) you want to discard (same way you do for SALT), You have to hit the "None"(?) button to confirm that you are done.
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John David
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Is there a tutorial in the beta you're testing & if not, does anyone know if one will be included when the game is released?

If there is one now, has anyone tried it and is it any good?
 
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Rick Thompson
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John David_ wrote:
Is there a tutorial in the beta you're testing & if not, does anyone know if one will be included when the game is released?

If there is one now, has anyone tried it and is it any good?


The tutorial was just added, along with the AI. I went through it last nigh, it wasn't too bad. I explained the basic concepts of the game and guided the player where to drag cards or place influence.
 
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John David
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Ok, thanks for the info Rick. I'm looking forward to getting the digital version of this game when it is released soon.
 
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Lawcomic
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The AI is, at this stage, not good.
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vidra wrote:
Hi, I've been trying to play the PC version versus the AI and for the life of me I cannot figure out two things:

1. When you play an opponent's card, how do you make the event occur first before the OPs are used (e.g. De Gaulle)

2. How do you use "UN Intervention" with an opponent's card

I've tried clicking on everything and I cannot seem to be able to find the option.

Thanks!


My question may be dumb but...where did you get the PC version?
 
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Rick Thompson
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M7N6L wrote:
vidra wrote:
Hi, I've been trying to play the PC version versus the AI and for the life of me I cannot figure out two things:

1. When you play an opponent's card, how do you make the event occur first before the OPs are used (e.g. De Gaulle)

2. How do you use "UN Intervention" with an opponent's card

I've tried clicking on everything and I cannot seem to be able to find the option.

Thanks!


My question may be dumb but...where did you get the PC version?


It's a beta version for Kickstarter backers who backed at a certain level.
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Pedro Estêvão
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Lawcomic wrote:
The AI is, at this stage, not good.


Tried two games as the USSR last night.

Three obvious AI flaws:

- It has strange priority settings for IP placement, going for mid war regions (particularly Central America, but also Africa) from Turn 1, at the expense of early war ones (particularly Asia).

- I'm yet to see it using the space race. It never dumped bad cards, not once. In one of the games it even triggered Decolonization 3 times for me during the game, giving me a mass advantage in Africa.

- It has problems dealing with a lot of events. Some good events are always ignored - for instance, it always played Brush War for ops. Other events do get used, but with very strange decisions regarding their implementation (e.g. using Junta on headline for realignments in countries where it has no advantage).
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Kristof Bodric
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Thanks everyone for your help!
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Kristian Thy
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PSantos wrote:
Three obvious AI flaws [...]


Well, when AlphaGo played Lee Sedol this week, Lee stated that the machine used moves he had never seen from any human player. Perhaps Playdek's AI is almost as advanced?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I keed, I keed.
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Michael Kiefte
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If the goal of AI was to teach the game and just get people started, it doesn't have to be good at all; it just needs to follow the rules. It serves as a gateway to two-player online play and then hopefully face-to-face play.

The AI is never going to be very good if what Playdek has described is accurate.

If AI was part of Playdek's contract with GMT, then they've already fulfilled it and they can move on to other problems.
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mkiefte wrote:
If the goal of AI was to teach the game and just get people started, it doesn't have to be good at all; it just needs to follow the rules. It serves as a gateway to two-player online play and then hopefully face-to-face play.

The AI is never going to be very good if what Playdek has described is accurate.

If AI was part of Playdek's contract with GMT, then they've already fulfilled it and they can move on to other problems.


where is this written ? for me they have to work also on the AI.
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Dan Moore
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If the AI isn't good I'm not gonna buy.

There are opportunities bountiful to play person vs person, online. Free ones. An app version is convenient for online but still, I'd Like an AI for on-demand use and crappy AIs aren't any fun. cough(CAYLUS)cough



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Ziemowit Pazderski
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A fair point, but free solutions, as great as they are, are usually one-man projects, so it's hard for them to offer the "full service".
For example, AI is not that important for me - but I am interested in an easily accessible, server-based solution, with correctly implemented rules, friendly UI, no lags and extra features like rating, game history and statistics. If Playdek delivers that, I will probably buy their product.

Judging from the above opinions about Playdek I am perhaps too optimistic - but then again these features are so time-consuming to implement and support, it would be very hard for the great guys responsible for the free solutions to do it.

Unless a community of programmers would emerge around one of the solutions, working together as volunteers to create it? I am a programmer, and I would be willing to use some of my spare time to develop such program (assuming I am familiar with the technology).
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Alex delenca
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A dumb bot will at last allow the beginners a chance to learn how to play the game. I think that's not worthless.

A bot of even average skill will be hard to program but there are probably quite a few programmers out there who'd give it a shot if they made an API for it.
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Bitchy Little Boy
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delenca wrote:
A bot of even average skill will be hard to program but there are probably quite a few programmers out there who'd give it a shot if they made an API for it.


A big IF for any commercial developer and for Playdeck in particular...
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Bitchy Little Boy
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Ziemowit wrote:
A fair point, but free solutions, as great as they are, are usually one-man projects, so it's hard for them to offer the "full service".
For example, AI is not that important for me - but I am interested in an easily accessible, server-based solution, with correctly implemented rules, friendly UI, no lags and extra features like rating, game history and statistics. If Playdek delivers that, I will probably buy their product.


Will this still be true in the hypothetically unlikely case Playdeck runs into financial problems and fires the programmers in charge of the game repeatedly and/or becomes insolvent?
 
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Dan Moore
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gmilitaru wrote:
Ziemowit wrote:
A fair point, but free solutions, as great as they are, are usually one-man projects, so it's hard for them to offer the "full service".
For example, AI is not that important for me - but I am interested in an easily accessible, server-based solution, with correctly implemented rules, friendly UI, no lags and extra features like rating, game history and statistics. If Playdek delivers that, I will probably buy their product.


Will this still be true in the hypothetically unlikely case Playdeck runs into financial problems and fires the programmers in charge of the game repeatedly and/or becomes insolvent?


. . . the Kickstart money was how much? Am I Missing some principle here? Does GMT get to allot development funds and Keep the rest?

 
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Bitchy Little Boy
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catmando wrote:
gmilitaru wrote:
Ziemowit wrote:
A fair point, but free solutions, as great as they are, are usually one-man projects, so it's hard for them to offer the "full service".
For example, AI is not that important for me - but I am interested in an easily accessible, server-based solution, with correctly implemented rules, friendly UI, no lags and extra features like rating, game history and statistics. If Playdek delivers that, I will probably buy their product.


Will this still be true in the hypothetically unlikely case Playdeck runs into financial problems and fires the programmers in charge of the game repeatedly and/or becomes insolvent?


. . . the Kickstart money was how much? Am I Missing some principle here? Does GMT get to allot development funds and Keep the rest?


If you read catmando's expectations, they involve recurring costs for servers, technology advances, and the neverending debugging.
 
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Ron Hunt
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Has anyone else had an issue using the full screen mode of the game? I tried it this morning and it looks like the mouse translation is way off to the left. Very frustrating since I some times have a hard time reading the cards and all of the other graphics in the smaller window.
 
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Grayson
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mkiefte wrote:
The AI is never going to be very good if what Playdek has described is accurate.


Because we seem to be devolving into a low-level hysteria (as BGG forums seem to do periodically) related to the AI, I'm going to post a few choice bits from their update.

playdeck update from March 12th wrote:

In previous games where we’ve felt the AI turned out pretty well, the genetic algorithm was allowed to run for over 1000 generations. We haven’t hit that point yet with TS, and we’re still tweaking the weights that are included in the GA.
<snip>
So we feel the AI player is ready to release for the beta now. If you are an experienced player who is already enjoying online play in the beta, then you probably won’t be challenged by what is there. But newcomers to the game will likely find a reasonable challenge to learn the rules against. AI will continue to be our main focus now and for the foreseeable future. Several of the methods we’re looking at to help guide the AI evaluation is feeding in results from games between two human players, but we need a large volumes of completed games to do that. We don’t have enough data for this from play during the beta, but we believe that a release to a wider audience will provide the results we’re looking for. We are interested in your feedback on the AI, but there are still work we want to get to before we’re ready for criticism, so please temper your expectations.


So, one could look at this two ways;

First, that they are trying to improve it given the plethora of factors, decision trees, and changing weights to various options that occurs throughout a game. They are having difficulty with this but are giving it a good go. You're looking at beta, and they want feedback about it.

An alternative theory is they are a bunch of bastards and this is what we've got and they are just lying to us to finish up.

Now, I'm cynical, but I'm not so cynical that I fall into the second group. I think it will improve well enough to be respectable, but not achieve greatness necessarily. Having people who are both beta testers and have played hundreds of games reach out to them to share knowledge (if they haven't already done so) would probably help.
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Dan Moore
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Going to the source, eh? Checking facts? What are you, some kind of hate-fest Killjoy?

Thanks, much appreciated. For real life.
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