GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
9,609 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
16 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

[redacted]» Forums » Rules

Subject: New player - Resolving Combat questions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mack Nations
msg tools
My wife and I went to AndoCon in Atlanta this weekend. I spotted [redacted] in the available games and it looked interesting. We gathered a group of four players and had a very painful first game trying to figure out how to play. The rules are difficult to follow and lack examples.

I have read the rules numerous times over and I can't quite figure out what is meant in the the Resolving Combat section of the rules.

Here is the section I'm having trouble with:

Quote:
Resolving Combat
If the interaction resulted in combat, then, starting with active player, the players take turns in choosing to show and discard
a Combat item (see Items), continuing in this manner until both choose not to reveal such an item. The result is adjusted
accordingly.
Note: A player who selected a Friendly card may not play Combat items.


I've looked through the list of cards and under Items I don't see any Combat items. I see a hidden weapon (looks like a Walther pistol) card, but that's all. Is Combat item supposed to be an Attack card (Brass Knuckles, Knife, Garrotte)? In the chart for combat modes, the first two: Attack vs. Friendly and Attack vs. Neutral are clear, but the Attack vs. Attack is troublesome.

How does the part about "continuing in this manner" work? Do the combatants keep throwing Attack cards until they get bored?
Or, like real Rock, Paper, Scissors, is the winner decided from best out of three rounds? Or is the first R,P,S battle the deciding one? That would make the "continuing in this manner ..." meaningless.

Or is this section about the resolution after the combat has concluded?

What does "The result is adjusted accordingly." mean?

Typical combat scenario examples would be helpful in the rule book.


Quote:

Any Attack cards played during the interaction are discarded by their owners to their own private discard pile, face down.
Immediately after all of a player's Attack cards have been used and discarded, that player may draw all of them to hand.
An active player can not continue movement if involved in an interaction which results in combat (i.e. when an Attack card
has been used), and loses the ability to take an action if defeated or tied.


This sounds like the players can keep using the Attack cards during combat and once the Attack cards are used up, the player just picks them up from his personal discard pile and keeps on throwing them, again and again, until the combatants get bored.

Any help would be appreciated.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi,
one quick question: did the game have one big rulebook or four leaflets? If the former, it's the first printing. Hopefully we've improved a bit since then.

So you have three ATTACK cards: knife, garrotte, knuckles.
There are two kinds of combat items: the pistol and the vest. You may or may not have these.

When you're in a fight, you select ONE attack card and check simultaneously. That determines the result (win, lose, or tie). No more attack cards will be played this fight. You announce to the other players "Joe beat me", then discard the attack card in front of you, so next battle you only have two to chose from.

So what do the combat items (pistol, vest) do? When you're announcing, you can play and discard a combat item to modify the result ("adjusting the result"). For example "Joe beat me, but I'm playing a pistol to make it a tie". The section about "continuing in such manner" refers to the fact that at this point Joe might go "Oh, then I'm playing a pistol to make me win again!" At which point you can concede defeat, or if you have a vest, you can say "Oh no, you didn't! Here is a vest to cancel my loss altogether." After which there won't be any more combat items played, as vest is final.

We kept the wording open, in case we add more combat items in the future (we've designed at least one more since).

Does this make more sense?

Also, if you've read the first printing rulebook, could you read the second one (http://ludicreations.com/product/redacted/ Downloads section) and tell me if it's better?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason "J.T." Taylor
United States
North Highlands
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TDaver wrote:
Hi,
one quick question: did the game have one big rulebook or four leaflets? If the former, it's the first printing. Hopefully we've improved a bit since then.

So you have three ATTACK cards: knife, garrotte, knuckles.
There are two kinds of combat items: the pistol and the vest. You may or may not have these.

When you're in a fight, you select ONE attack card and check simultaneously. That determines the result (win, lose, or tie). No more attack cards will be played this fight. You announce to the other players "Joe beat me", then discard the attack card in front of you, so next battle you only have two to chose from.

So what do the combat items (pistol, vest) do? When you're announcing, you can play and discard a combat item to modify the result ("adjusting the result"). For example "Joe beat me, but I'm playing a pistol to make it a tie". The section about "continuing in such manner" refers to the fact that at this point Joe might go "Oh, then I'm playing a pistol to make me win again!" At which point you can concede defeat, or if you have a vest, you can say "Oh no, you didn't! Here is a vest to cancel my loss altogether." After which there won't be any more combat items played, as vest is final.

We kept the wording open, in case we add more combat items in the future (we've designed at least one more since).

Does this make more sense?

Also, if you've read the first printing rulebook, could you read the second one (http://ludicreations.com/product/redacted/ Downloads section) and tell me if it's better?


David - I happened across the OP's post and your response just made my day! I've been wanting to get this game back to the table with my group and we had really struggled with the first edition of the rulebook. After doing a quick reading of the new rulebook I think it clears up a ton of things for me - especially surrounding what to do with the combat cards and a much better explanation of the setup! I'm going to print this off and bring it back to game night and hopefully I'll remember to respond back here to give the results.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jt4jc wrote:

David - I happened across the OP's post and your response just made my day! I've been wanting to get this game back to the table with my group and we had really struggled with the first edition of the rulebook. After doing a quick reading of the new rulebook I think it clears up a ton of things for me - especially surrounding what to do with the combat cards and a much better explanation of the setup! I'm going to print this off and bring it back to game night and hopefully I'll remember to respond back here to give the results.


Awesome! Responses like this made the extra hours we killed into the making of the second rulebook worth it!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rachel Schnoor
United States
Providence
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think I understand this game, but I want to be 100% clear before I try to teach people (which will hopefully happen this weekend - fingers crossed!). I have the newer version of the rulebook but am still a bit thrown while reading it - there was a quick mention of a personal discard pile of cards you can get back... then nothing. I wasn't clear on that pile and had to reread a lot of sections of the book multiple times, refer back and forth (between rulebook sections), and look stuff up here.

Please let me know if I've figured it out correctly.

My conclusions:

1) You always have the option to play friendly and neutral cards - they do not go into any kind of discard pile

2) Attack cards (knife, garrotte, brass knuckles) go into personal discard pile, while combat cards (gun, bullet proof vest) go into regular collective completely out of your hand discard pile that everyone uses

3) Even if you pick up more attack cards (extra knife, garrotte, or brass knuckles) they will still go into personal discard pile and be re-used once you can pick up whole pile again

I'm most sure of #2 being correct - though that took a lot of looking up n confusion so I'm doublechecking anyway. #s 1 + 3 I'm putting a lot of guesswork into.

Sneaking out mechanics were a bit complicated too and got even more so when you added dark rooms into the mix but I'm pretty sure I got that sorted by looking back and forth between the breaker room description and the sneaking section - examples may have clarified this - even just worded ones without pictures.

Also, I don't feel that it would be clear that someone is knocked out just because they are standing upright in the corner of a room (and may cause people to avoid the room and make different strategic decisions than they would have if they had noticed/remembered that someone was knocked out) so I will be making a knocked out token and placing it on laying down players until their turn again so that it is apparent at a glance that they are knocked out. My token will probably just be a spare bit of cardboard I have from punching another game out that I will simply write KO on in marker. The only problem with this is that if they are also injured - we will have to find some way of remembering that - maybe a KO token with a broken heart symbol so you remember not to stand them back up once it is their turn again?

Also, if you are injured a second time (when already injured) - does that change anything? And do you have to heal twice before cured (2 first aid kits/2 actions spent in infirmary) - or just one heal will fix any number of injuries all at once?

I am super excited to try this game and hope I don't sound critical, just trying to make clear what parts are confusing and trying to clarify a few things but I'm still STOKED about getting the chance to try it!!! I bought it because a friend who loves Bond and the spy genre as much as I do (he especially loves the clean cut book versions and the Sean Connery era before all the gadgets complicated things - I like pre AND post gadgetry but whatever) is coming to visit. He specifically told me not to buy him any games (because he's not really a gamer and pretty much only plays games with me), but he didn't say not to buy games for me to play with him, haha. Hopefully intelligent non-gamers can pick this up when the teaching goes smoothly so just trying to expunge all doubts and confusion now before game-time. This is the first game I've read about that really sounds like it will capture that classic spy movie feel that I've been looking for so thank you for designing it!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mihály Vincze
Hungary
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
Hi there!
I will answer you rule clarification questions as I feel competent in those
So about discarding: your 2nd version is the correct one. The red backed cards are items and they are used to boost an attack - they go to a common item discard. The black backed cards are interaction cards and they are used to initiate an attack - they go into a personal discard and can be retreived later.
About double injuring: you get no extra handicap for being injured twice, moving 2 rooms is the only penalty ever. And you don't need to heal twice, only once, no matter how many times you get injured. Basically injuring an injured person worth nothing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rachel Schnoor
United States
Providence
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for getting back so quickly, but I'm still unclear about interactions. I was under the impression that #s 1, 2, AND 3 of my conclusions were correct. If some of them are not correct - that would be very useful information to have before playing.

Do the friendly and neutral cards ALSO go into the personal discard pile - not to be used again until you have already used all the attack cards AS WELL as the friendly and neutral cards? Or do you never discard friendly and neutral cards and just put them back in your hand?

Also, do you only keep one copy of brass knuckles, garrotte, and knife (as far as being able to reuse them from personal discard pile? I'm unclear as to whether extra attack cards that get picked up in armoury get added permanently to your deck of use, discard to personal discard pile until all are used, then use again. OR if extra weapons picked up in armoury are use once (for the whole game) then they are gone when you pick discard pile back up (after using other attack cards).

Please advise as to accuracy of #1 and #3 in my list of conclusions because without knowing these things - I don't think the game will be playable.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mihály Vincze
Hungary
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
Oops, I have misread you posts and for some reason thought your 3 assumptions exlude each other. blush my bad.
So reading the post again: All of your 3 initial assumptions are correct.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rachel Schnoor
United States
Providence
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Awesome! Thanks so much!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian
Germany
Hamburg
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Tonight will be my first game and one question is still open:

If we had a fight and the active player won - from the rules he is the first who has to decide if he wants to play a pistol (if possible). If he doesn't and the looser plays a pistol, is he still able to play now (unless both have passed after each other) or is he not able to play any more cards if he didn't in the first moment?

Many thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sneuhauss wrote:
Tonight will be my first game and one question is still open:

If we had a fight and the active player won - from the rules he is the first who has to decide if he wants to play a pistol (if possible). If he doesn't and the looser plays a pistol, is he still able to play now (unless both have passed after each other) or is he not able to play any more cards if he didn't in the first moment?

Many thanks!


When a player plays a pistol the other player always have a chance to play a pistol/vest. The whole "active player first" thing is there for the case when it's a tie, and "both players want to play a pistol unless the other one plays one", in which case the active player has to say yes/no first, but if he says no, and the other says yes, he can still play. In essence, it rarely matters
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.