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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Cloaking Device rules (Scum upgrade from Mist Hunter) rss

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Sam Cook
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The new Cloaking Device upgrade states:

"At the end of each round, if you are cloaked, roll 1 attack die. On a <eye> result, discard this card, then decloak or discard your cloak token"

Do you keep your cloaking token if you choose the decloak option? The rules reference on the Decloak card just say that you have to spend your token to perform a Decloak, but it doesn't say that when you decloak you have to spend your token. Is this one of those situations where when A implies B then B implies A?

Also, what do people think if you can't take the decloak action because there are no valid locations to decloak to? Are you forced to then take the option where you just discard your token?
 
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Kevin Smith
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Donkler wrote:
The new Cloaking Device upgrade states:

"At the end of each round, if you are cloaked, roll 1 attack die. On a <eye> result, discard this card, then decloak or discard your cloak token"

Do you keep your cloaking token if you choose the decloak option? The rules reference on the Decloak card just say that you have to spend your token to perform a Decloak, but it doesn't say that when you decloak you have to spend your token. Is this one of those situations where when A implies B then B implies A?

Also, what do people think if you can't take the decloak action because there are no valid locations to decloak to? Are you forced to then take the option where you just discard your token?

Does it say "then decloak OR discard your cloak token," or "decloak AND discard your cloak token?"
That would seem to make a difference.

If it's "or," then my guess is that when you roll an eye you must dicard the cloak token, but then you have the option of decloaking or remaining cloaked.
Either way, the next time you decloak you'll not be able to recloak, because the upgrade will have been discarded.

Kevin
 
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James Cheng
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Donkler wrote:
The new Cloaking Device upgrade states:

"At the end of each round, if you are cloaked, roll 1 attack die. On a <eye> result, discard this card, then decloak or discard your cloak token"

Do you keep your cloaking token if you choose the decloak option? The rules reference on the Decloak card just say that you have to spend your token to perform a Decloak, but it doesn't say that when you decloak you have to spend your token. Is this one of those situations where when A implies B then B implies A?

Also, what do people think if you can't take the decloak action because there are no valid locations to decloak to? Are you forced to then take the option where you just discard your token?


When you roll a <eye> result, you have to discard the Cloaking Device upgrade card, and then:

1. Decloak
or
2. Discard you cloaking token

How to decloak is defined by the decloak reference card, where it said you spend the cloak token to decloak. So you spend the token. You sound like you are looking for rules that you can decloak without spending the token, which is clearly not possible. (or logical)

The second option is when you don't want to decloak, or like your second question, when you can't decloak. Then you're staying where you are.
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James Cheng
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underling wrote:
...my guess is that when you roll an eye you must dicard the cloak token, but then you have the option of decloaking or remaining cloaked.
Either way, the next time you decloak you'll not be able to recloak, because the upgrade will have been discarded.

Kevin


How do you remain "cloak" when you already discard the cloak token?

The reference card for reference:
 
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Sam Cook
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eunoia wrote:
Donkler wrote:
The new Cloaking Device upgrade states:

"At the end of each round, if you are cloaked, roll 1 attack die. On a <eye> result, discard this card, then decloak or discard your cloak token"

Do you keep your cloaking token if you choose the decloak option? The rules reference on the Decloak card just say that you have to spend your token to perform a Decloak, but it doesn't say that when you decloak you have to spend your token. Is this one of those situations where when A implies B then B implies A?

Also, what do people think if you can't take the decloak action because there are no valid locations to decloak to? Are you forced to then take the option where you just discard your token?


When you roll a <eye> result, you have to discard the Cloaking Device upgrade card, and then:

1. Decloak
or
2. Discard you cloaking token

How to decloak is defined by the decloak reference card, where it said you spend the cloak token to decloak. So you spend the token. You sound like you are looking for rules that you can decloak without spending the token, which is clearly not possible. (or logical)

The second option is when you don't want to decloak, or like your second question, when you can't decloak. Then you're staying where you are.


The Decloak reference card also says you decloak at the start of the activation phase, which is not true here. I agree that conceptually it doesn't make sense to decloak without actually removing the token, but I'm not sure the language supports that.

I think the language would have been much clearer to state something like "discard this card, discard your cloak token, and then you may DECLOAK"

How it is worded now, it is similar to when you spend a focus token, you can change all your <eye> results to hits, but when you use Keyan Farlander's ability to change all <eye> results to hits, you don't have to spend your focus token in that case.
 
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James Cheng
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Donkler wrote:
eunoia wrote:
Donkler wrote:
The new Cloaking Device upgrade states:

"At the end of each round, if you are cloaked, roll 1 attack die. On a <eye> result, discard this card, then decloak or discard your cloak token"

Do you keep your cloaking token if you choose the decloak option? The rules reference on the Decloak card just say that you have to spend your token to perform a Decloak, but it doesn't say that when you decloak you have to spend your token. Is this one of those situations where when A implies B then B implies A?

Also, what do people think if you can't take the decloak action because there are no valid locations to decloak to? Are you forced to then take the option where you just discard your token?


When you roll a <eye> result, you have to discard the Cloaking Device upgrade card, and then:

1. Decloak
or
2. Discard you cloaking token

How to decloak is defined by the decloak reference card, where it said you spend the cloak token to decloak. So you spend the token. You sound like you are looking for rules that you can decloak without spending the token, which is clearly not possible. (or logical)

The second option is when you don't want to decloak, or like your second question, when you can't decloak. Then you're staying where you are.


The Decloak reference card also says you decloak at the start of the activation phase, which is not true here. I agree that conceptually it doesn't make sense to decloak without actually removing the token, but I'm not sure the language supports that.

I think the language would have been much clearer to state something like "discard this card, discard your cloak token, and then you may DECLOAK"

How it is worded now, it is similar to when you spend a focus token, you can change all your <eye> results to hits, but when you use Keyan Farlander's ability to change all <eye> results to hits, you don't have to spend your focus token in that case.


The fact that Decloak reference card got "errata" didn't invalid the whole text. You can go to the new FAQs to read the new text if you want.

When you spend something to do something, you discard them. You spend cloak token to decloak. Or you decloak by spending cloak token. English is not my native tongue so forgive me for not seeing difference between the two phrases.

Keyan is a special pilot ability that "breaks" the rule. But it's spelled out in the card text, aka rule, for you to have a alternative way of turning <focus> result into hits during attack. I don't think there's rule for you to "decloak" without spending the cloak token. So your suggested wording would be redundant.

Decloak comprises
1. Spending cloak token
2. Perform barrel roll or boost with 2 straight movement templete

That's what the rule said, and I don't see any ambiguity.
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David Fichtner
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It sounds to me like you are picking which effect you want for the rest of the game - permanently cloaked or permanently decloaked. Your device is broken, and you get one moment to make a choice. If you decloak, you will spend your token and never have the option to cloak again since the card is gone. If you stay cloaked, you will never be able to decloak because doing so requires spending a cloak token, which you no longer have.
 
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David Fichtner
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fischgeist wrote:
It sounds to me like you are picking which effect you want for the rest of the game - permanently cloaked or permanently decloaked. Your device is broken, and you get one moment to make a choice. If you decloak, you will spend your token and never have the option to cloak again since the card is gone. If you stay cloaked, you will never be able to decloak because doing so requires spending a cloak token, which you no longer have.

On second thought, no. I guess you will be not cloaked either way, but you choose if you will stay put or use the decloak tricks.
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Jason Bush
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the way it reads to me is: on an eye roll, make a decloak barrel roll, or just stay where you are and decloak.

its like your cloaking device has failed.
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Justin Hare
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DanielFirestorm wrote:
the way it reads to me is: on an eye roll, make a decloak barrel roll, or just stay where you are and decloak.

its like your cloaking device has failed.


^^ This

You decloak on this failed roll. When you remove the token, you have the option to 'decloak' and perform the decloak barrel roll or to lose the token and be no longer cloaked but stay where you are.
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Shaun Fuller
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It also feels like a bit of game flavor. The Cloak on the Whispers is stable and can remain active round after round if you choose to never decloak. But the Scum cloaking device seems to be, like other equipment they have, used and/or busted. You can cloak as a free action, but you risk the cloak permanently being disabled at the end of the round.
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