GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
8,916 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
18 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Smash Up» Forums » Rules

Subject: Potion of Paralysis ruling help rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Intangible One
msg tools
Potion of Paralysis

Special: Play before a base scores. Until the end of the turn, cancel the abilities of all cards on the base or on minions on the base.

Based on the wording, there are way too many ways one could interpret this card and it makes playing this card and this expansion in general very frustrating. I'm going to list possible ways to interpret the card, and it would be great if we could get, perhaps, a game designer or someone to comment on which affect is the real intended one.

EFFECT 1:

Paralysis can cancel EVERY SINGLE VISIBLE CARD ON THE BASE (including actions played ON the base, actions played ON minions, and the abilities of minions themselves )

OR

You can choose to cancel ONLY the abilities of minions on the base, and NOT actions played on minions or actions played on the base.

Reason for effect 1: If the first segment of the card effect already cancels everything on the base, why would they ever include an "or" in the card text? Why not an "and"? This tells me that they actually intended for the player to have a CHOICE what exactly he wants to cancel.

Say the player has his own actions played ON the base, but he doesn't want to cancel his own affects. He would choose the OR option of this card to ONLY cancel the effect/specials of MINIONS and ONLY MINIONS on the base.


EFFECT 2:

This effect simply cancels the abilities of every single card on the base, on minions, and actions on minions.

Reason for effect 2: It says it on the card.

Reason why effect 2 doesn't sound correct: Why is there AN "OR instead of an and? Why is there even a second part of the card at all, since the first part of the description already covers every single ability option? This can't be the only effect IMO.


Effect 3:

This effect cancels abilities of cards ON the base.

(so this cancels actions played on bases and NOT minions and NOT actions played ON minions because they are not "ON" the base. Only actions played on bases are).

OR

This card cancels the abilities of MINIONS on the base (actions on minions are NOT affected since actions on minions are not ON the base, they're on minions).

Reason for effect 3: The card does have an OR for a reason, and actions played on minions doesn't count as being played on the base, otherwise base effects that give you "Extra actions if you play an action on this base" would give you the extra action for equipping stuff like shielding on your minion, which it doesn't.

Reason effect 3 might be wrong: No big [OR] to show options?


Effect 4:

Cancel the abilities of all cards played ON the base (only the actions played on base)

OR

Cancel the abilities of all cards played on minions on the base.

Reason for effect 4: With the "OR" being included, you could see the main effect is to cancel the abilities of cards played on things, having the option of all cards played on the base or on minions.


Logically, any of these effects could be actual effects because the creator's failed card description... Really wondering which affect they intended for this card to have.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ruben de Kemp
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey there,

This was actually clarified by one of the official playtesters in another thread (the lead, I think, actually )

Quote:

- Potion of Paralysis targets every card at the base: actions on the base, minions on the base, and actions on minions on the base. The "or" there is not meant to be an exclusive or -- A or B but not both. If it were, it would be more explicitly stated, e.g. with "either ... or", or with a all-caps "OR".


Hope that helps!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Intangible One
msg tools
That doesn't really help. Using his logic, if it were to include BOTH all minions ON the base, all actions ON the base, and all actions played on minions on the base, then there is no need for the "or" in the card. It would simply be an "and".

Probably going to have to submit this to the actual makers of the game to get their opinion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sachin Daniels
Canada
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If that reply was from Bryan Stout, he is the lead playtester and his word comes from the maker of the game, Paul Peterson. It should be and, but sometimes these things slip past proof reading.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ruben de Kemp
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yep, that came from Bryan Stout and is, for all intents and purposes, gospel
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick T
msg tools
Yep, Bryan is writing the (fabled) FAQ, so if you're going to believe that, believe him!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Intangible One
msg tools
So we're supposed to blame everything wrong with this game on the incompetency of the printing company who made the cards?

-_-

Gonna still email the creators about this. But for now, will let them know.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Stout
United States
Annandale
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
marthman9 wrote:
So we're supposed to blame everything wrong with this game on the incompetency of the printing company who made the cards?

Don't blame the printers; they just print what they're told to by the publishers, though of course they can make mistakes in interpreting or carrying out their instructions.

The wording of the cards starts with the designer, but several people give input for best wording, including playtesters and publishing staff. Even with all that input there can be problems. At the time of editorial review no one thought the "or" wording was a problem, but we cannot foresee all difficulties, and in retrospect I agree that it could be worded better. You can blame us. We make it right through answers in the forums, and in the FAQ that will some day appear.

You can also blame the ambiguities of natural language. In a computer language the words "and" and "or" have single precise meanings, but in spoken or written English they are used in a variety of ways, to the point that one person might say "and" while another says "or", while they both mean the same thing.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Radical Rhino
msg tools
As its worded, the card either cancels minion abilities, or actions played on minions, but not both.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick T
msg tools
Why not both? If you're at a dinner party, and the host asks you if you'd like "Coffee or Dessert", do you think that limits you to choose only one of those things? Any decent host is offering you both. The point is, English has a lot of room for interpretation and because this card didn't use the all-caps "OR" precedent that was set in cards like Fairy Ballet or Puck, it doesn't make sense to assign it 'keyword' status, and mandate an accompanying "exclusive OR" interpretation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.