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Subject: Kickstarter is up rss

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Joseph
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I decided to retract my pledge due to price and the coins concern. I would rather have the choice of getting this without the metal coins, especially since they don't look like they are generic Roman but proprietary themed to Colosseum that I won't be able to use for other games.

 
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David Tolin
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justrick wrote:
DavidT wrote:
justrick wrote:
DavidT wrote:
With the exception of Orleans and maybe Kemet, you're not really comparing apples to apples.


All of these games are at or around the $60 mark on Amazon, Coolstuff, and Miniature Market.


And Colosseum will be at or around the $45 mark when it hits those same outlets. It's a cheaper game.


Regardless, I could name dozens of other games at the $45 mark that far exceed the quality of this Colosseum edition in both component quality and art quality.


I'm sure you could. I was just pointing out that the games you did name were not in the same price range. It's disingenuous to say "Imperial Assault justifies its $60 price tag" when Imperial Assault's price tag is $100.
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Adam P
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Day2Dan wrote:
I showed this to my wife, who isn't super into board games. We took a look at the DoW production and the TMG production, and here were a few of her comments:

The Box Art: "This game looks...boring. It looks so serious. The new one looks much more fun."

The Meeples: "The old ones are so cool! The new ones look a little goofy."

The board: "[The new board] looks a lot nicer. It looks colorful and it makes more sense than the old one."

In general, the game seems to be going for a wider audience appeal with its new art direction, and from my anecdotal evidence, it seems like it can be very successful at that. It's too bad that for some of the folks here it seems to be a step backward, but I would wager that for TMG selling this game to the wider market, this is a great step.


Good anecdote, this is what I was thinking as well.

The art is aimed at a larger audience than the designer game collectors.
Nonetheless, I think the art direction could be less cartoonish and still hit a similar vibrancy.

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Soren Hedberg
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vouna wrote:
I decided to retract my pledge due to price and the coins concern. I would rather have the choice of getting this without the metal coins, especially since they don't look like they are generic Roman but proprietary themed to Colosseum that I won't be able to use for other games.



Why wouldn't you be able to use them for other games?
 
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Justin Strickland
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DavidT wrote:
justrick wrote:
DavidT wrote:
justrick wrote:
DavidT wrote:
With the exception of Orleans and maybe Kemet, you're not really comparing apples to apples.


All of these games are at or around the $60 mark on Amazon, Coolstuff, and Miniature Market.


And Colosseum will be at or around the $45 mark when it hits those same outlets. It's a cheaper game.


Regardless, I could name dozens of other games at the $45 mark that far exceed the quality of this Colosseum edition in both component quality and art quality.


I'm sure you could. I was just pointing out that the games you did name were not in the same price range. It's disingenuous to say "Imperial Assault justifies its $60 price tag" when Imperial Assault's price tag is $100.


You're right, it may have been a bit disingenuous. The best comparison though is Orleans, as it's a previously successful TMG product. It just looks as though the standard they set with that game is not being met here. I'm still curious to try the game since it's highly regarded but I'm also wary of the fact that it went out of print for a reason and DoW wouldn't bring it back. I can't help but feel that if the original version went out of print and many people are saying it's the superior version, then maybe it's not such a great game after all.
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Pauly Paul
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justrick wrote:
You're right, it may have been a bit disingenuous. The best comparison though is Orleans, as it's a previously successful TMG product. It just looks as though the standard they set with that game is not being met here. I'm still curious to try the game since it's highly regarded but I'm also wary of the fact that it went out of print for a reason and DoW wouldn't bring it back. I can't help but feel that if the original version went out of print and many people are saying it's the superior version, then maybe it's not such a great game after all.


I'm a little worried about this as well. Part of me is concerned that my interest in the game is partly fueled by the fact that it's OOP and hard to come by. I'm not sure if the game would be my type of game.
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Michael Frost

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When it comes the actual game play, just watch one of the many favorable videos on line. You'll see the game played and get the thoughts of the reviewer. (I love the game, but then I like auction games and think this is one of the best games when it comes to great theme matching game play.)
 
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Pauly Paul
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MPMelanchthon wrote:
When it comes the actual game play, just watch one of the many favorable videos on line. You'll see the game played and get the thoughts of the reviewer. (I love the game, but then I like auction games and think this is one of the best games when it comes to great theme matching game play.)


Sadly I've done so and it hadn't helped me. Still undecided (I wonder if being undecided at all is my answer)
 
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Anthony Baldassar
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venrondua wrote:
justrick wrote:
You're right, it may have been a bit disingenuous. The best comparison though is Orleans, as it's a previously successful TMG product. It just looks as though the standard they set with that game is not being met here. I'm still curious to try the game since it's highly regarded but I'm also wary of the fact that it went out of print for a reason and DoW wouldn't bring it back. I can't help but feel that if the original version went out of print and many people are saying it's the superior version, then maybe it's not such a great game after all.


I'm a little worried about this as well. Part of me is concerned that my interest in the game is partly fueled by the fact that it's OOP and hard to come by. I'm not sure if the game would be my type of game.


At the time when I originally purchased and played with my game group, no one had interest in the game, after we played I know two people that made it an instant buy, I would think it was more due to exposure than game play. Our small group loves the game, and I know one of our members that has the original and he's also backing the new version.
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David Christopher
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glamrox wrote:
[q="Hillean"]... the sleeve would be annoying to slide on and off every time.


Perfect avatar for that comment
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David Christopher
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Put me in the bucket of "I want to play this game badly and the KS is a welcomed entry to at least play but I've already spent way too much money on Masmorra, AQ:I, and Heart of Crown..."

Probably going to have to pass just based on that, hopefully I can grab when it goes to retail.
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David Tolin
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justrick wrote:
The best comparison though is Orleans, as it's a previously successful TMG product. It just looks as though the standard they set with that game is not being met here. I'm still curious to try the game since it's highly regarded but I'm also wary of the fact that it went out of print for a reason and DoW wouldn't bring it back. I can't help but feel that if the original version went out of print and many people are saying it's the superior version, then maybe it's not such a great game after all.


I agree--this doesn't look nearly as nice as Orleans.

As for it being OOP and DoW not bringing it back, I wouldn't read too much into that. Tons of good games go out of print, and there often isn't enough financial incentive for their publishers to bring them back. Sometimes, that's because the market has changed, other times it's because background shenanigans (lapsed rights, disagreements with the designer, etc.) make a reprint difficult (as has been suggested was the case with Colosseum).
 
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Justin Strickland
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Oh well, I already have too many great games not getting played enough so I'm not too upset to sit this one out. Hopefully I'll get to try the old one at a convention someday.
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Joseph
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albynomonk wrote:


Why wouldn't you be able to use them for other games?


The iconography they showed just seem Coliseum focused instead of generic roman currency, that troubles me from a reusable standpoint as I would of preferred something a little more like what would of been used back then. It's a theme and immersion thing I guess. I could see myself using the coins for other games as currency if that were the case.
 
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Justin G
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DavidT wrote:
justrick wrote:
60 bucks! Are you kidding me?! This should not be a 60 dollar game. I would maybe pay $30 for the weird cartoony artwork and awkward meeples. Just for reference, here's a list of games with phenomenal components that justify their $60 price tag:

Star Wars: Imperial Assault


MSRP $99 - Online Retail $68

justrick wrote:


MSRP $99 - Online Retail $64

justrick wrote:


MSRP $69 - Online Retail $46

justrick wrote:


MSRP $89 - Online Retail $59

justrick wrote:


MSRP $75 - Online Retail $49

justrick wrote:
And the one that's leaving us all shaking our heads...Orléans


With the exception of Orleans and maybe Kemet, you're not really comparing apples to apples.


Colosseum MSRP $80
KS Price $60 (25% off MSRP)
Projected Retail $56 (30% off MSRP)

This is my problem with the game as well, it just does not seem like an $80 game that you pay $60 for. I really like the game and was looking forward to this KS, and I wouldn't mind the price IF it looked like a deluxe reprint. But the only game upgrade I can see are the coins, what else is bringing the cost up?

I realize its not going to be the DoW version, and I'm ok with their version (exept for the bland wooden "upgraded" pieces), but this seem WAY overpriced for what they are making!

It seems they are listening to backers about some of the art and looking into fixing it, which is nice, but I'll have to wait and see what its looks like in the end before I pull the trigger on this game at that price.
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David Tolin
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geremy24 wrote:
DavidT wrote:
justrick wrote:
60 bucks! Are you kidding me?! This should not be a 60 dollar game. I would maybe pay $30 for the weird cartoony artwork and awkward meeples. Just for reference, here's a list of games with phenomenal components that justify their $60 price tag:

Star Wars: Imperial Assault


MSRP $99 - Online Retail $68

justrick wrote:


MSRP $99 - Online Retail $64

justrick wrote:


MSRP $69 - Online Retail $46

justrick wrote:


MSRP $89 - Online Retail $59

justrick wrote:


MSRP $75 - Online Retail $49

justrick wrote:
And the one that's leaving us all shaking our heads...Orléans


With the exception of Orleans and maybe Kemet, you're not really comparing apples to apples.


Colosseum MSRP $80
KS Price $60 (25% off MSRP)
Projected Retail $56 (30% off MSRP)

This is my problem with the game as well, it just does not seem like an $80 game that you pay $60 for. I really like the game and was looking forward to this KS, and I wouldn't mind the price IF it looked like a deluxe reprint. But the only game upgrade I can see are the coins, what else is bringing the cost up?

I realize its not going to be the DoW version, and I'm ok with their version (exept for the bland wooden "upgraded" pieces), but this seem WAY overpriced for what they are making!

It seems they are listening to backers about some of the art and looking into fixing it, which is nice, but I'll have to wait and see what its looks like in the end before I pull the trigger on this game at that price.


The MSRP is $80? I missed that in the KS, I guess. I assumed it would be the same as Orleans.

Still not in the same ballpark as the $100 games, but I'm more inclined to agree it doesn't look like an $80 game. It doesn't even look as nice as Orleans.
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Justin G
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DavidT wrote:
[q="geremy24"][q="DavidT"][q="justrick"]

The MSRP is $80? I missed that in the KS, I guess. I assumed it would be the same as Orleans.

Still not in the same ballpark as the $100 games, but I'm more inclined to agree it doesn't look like an $80 game. It doesn't even look as nice as Orleans.


It's listed in the Rewards box, "MSRP $80 - Yours Now for a pledge of $60".
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David Tolin
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geremy24 wrote:
DavidT wrote:
[q="geremy24"][q="DavidT"][q="justrick"]

The MSRP is $80? I missed that in the KS, I guess. I assumed it would be the same as Orleans.

Still not in the same ballpark as the $100 games, but I'm more inclined to agree it doesn't look like an $80 game. It doesn't even look as nice as Orleans.


It's listed in the Rewards box, "MSRP $80 - Yours Now for a pledge of $60".


Are the colosseum pieces going to be screen-printed wood? If that were the case, the price would make more sense. As is, I don't see it.
 
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Aaron Bohm
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Just so everyone is on the same page - and I'm not personally agreeing or disagreeing on the price - but in many instances TMG has a notorious history by now of limited-print games on Kickstarter and that usually means selling games on KS, but not really printing a whole lot more than what satisfies those orders.

The short version: I would not make the decision to purchase/not puchase based on the unlikely idea that there are going to be a lot of boxes of this print lying around after the KS campaign.
 
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Thomas
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Never Knows Best wrote:
Just so everyone is on the same page - and I'm not personally agreeing or disagreeing on the price - but in many instances TMG has a notorious history by now of limited-print games on Kickstarter and that usually means selling games on KS, but not really printing a whole lot more than what satisfies those orders.

The short version: I would not make the decision to purchase/not puchase based on the unlikely idea that there are going to be a lot of boxes of this print lying around after the KS campaign.


It's a nice scare tactic but not always consistent
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Seth Jaffee
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Never Knows Best wrote:
in many instances TMG has a notorious history by now of limited-print games on Kickstarter and that usually means selling games on KS, but not really printing a whole lot more than what satisfies those orders.

Other than the deluxe version of Orleans, and it was very clear in the KS that there wouldn't be extras of the deluxe version made, how many times has this happened?

(spoilers: the answer is zero. All of TMG's kickstarters have gone into distribution)
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Lee Griffiths
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Colosseum is one of my favourite games. I never managed to get a copy for myself and I'll never understand why DoW didn't ever reprint this game. Seems like it would sell like hot cakes. Like the rest of you, I'm a bit disappointed with the new art direction. It's a shame they couldn't licence the old art.

Jonathan Degann wrote:
And (as an owner) I'm hoping this will RAISE the price of the DOW edition! Now that people see how disappointing this one is in comparison. I had wanted to sell mine for $90, but when this was announced the price deflated.


I don't like you. :'(
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Robert Ell
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Poddster wrote:
Colosseum is one of my favourite games. I never managed to get a copy for myself and I'll never understand why DoW didn't ever reprint this game. Seems like it would sell like hot cakes. Like the rest of you, I'm a bit disappointed with the new art direction. It's a shame they couldn't licence the old art.


It didn't sell like hotcakes when they printed it the first time, and now they have quite a few games that do (and aren't overrated just because they are OOP, bam!)
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Michael Frost

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Too funny, the "bam". Though the sales issue may have been tied both to advertising, promotion & pricing back in the day as well as the type games put out by DOW and the type of gamers that gravitate to these games. DOW seems to specialize in light weight games. Their biggies are Ticket to Ride, Small World, Shadows Over Camelot, Memoir 44, and now Five Tribes. Usually with lots of expansions. They also have such mediocrities as Cargo Noir, Pirates Cove, Relic Runners, etc. While Colosseum seems lighter at first, both the auction mechanism as well as the planning for future events require some strategic thinking, esp. in light of the way money is generated to fund your needs. So this may have been a "heavier" game than either they or their established customers expected? Having played many of their games, all I can say is I prefer Colosseum to TTR, SW, 5T, CN, PC, RR, etc. But I tend to like heavier games that don't rely on chance.
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Yannick Deplaedt
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80 bucks MSRP.

More like a 60 bucks MSRP sold 60 bucks on KS.

They should have gone with a 100 MSRP, so people would be even more convinced it's a good deal.

I will wait for retail.
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