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Subject: Kickstarter is up rss

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Rich A
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MPMelanchthon wrote:
Too funny, the "bam". Though the sales issue may have been tied both to advertising, promotion & pricing back in the day as well as the type games put out by DOW and the type of gamers that gravitate to these games. DOW seems to specialize in light weight games. Their biggies are Ticket to Ride, Small World, Shadows Over Camelot, Memoir 44, and now Five Tribes. Usually with lots of expansions. They also have such mediocrities as Cargo Noir, Pirates Cove, Relic Runners, etc. While Colosseum seems lighter at first, both the auction mechanism as well as the planning for future events require some strategic thinking, esp. in light of the way money is generated to fund your needs. So this may have been a "heavier" game than either they or their established customers expected? Having played many of their games, all I can say is I prefer Colosseum to TTR, SW, 5T, CN, PC, RR, etc. But I tend to like heavier games that don't rely on chance.


This is one of the reasons I don't like the new artwork much. This isn't a kids game and it is a bit weightier than your normal family game. Anyway I'm clearly in the minority because the project has Been very popular. I may pick this up in the future through a trade or something depending on what the end result looks like.
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Darryl with one "R"
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sedjtroll wrote:
Never Knows Best wrote:
in many instances TMG has a notorious history by now of limited-print games on Kickstarter and that usually means selling games on KS, but not really printing a whole lot more than what satisfies those orders.

Other than the deluxe version of Orleans, and it was very clear in the KS that there wouldn't be extras of the deluxe version made, how many times has this happened?

(spoilers: the answer is zero. All of TMG's kickstarters have gone into distribution)

And for what it's worth, I found the production of the non-deluxe/retail version of Orléans to be of excellent quality as well.

Since component upgrades mean little to me, I'd actually prefer a non-deluxe & less expensive version of Colosseum (hypothetically speaking, if the game worked well with 2P).
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Patrick C.
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I think what the defenders of the current artwork aren't seeing is that probably most critics would be satisfied with a new edition with different art as long as it fit the theme and was visually pleasing - and wasn't cartoonish. It's not about the 1st edition being perfect because it wasn't. The problem is that a lot of us just flat out loathe the new art. I would actually say it's repels me and causes me to completely lose interest in even playing the game let alone backing it on KS. If I had liked the art I would have backed it. TMG doesn't care? Oh well. Lots of other games to be played!

Enough people like it so the game will be published. But no one will ever convince me that the current artwork was the best choice. TMG could have come up with different art and sold even more games.
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Stormy Waters
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albynomonk wrote:
I don't mind the new art style at all. The new board layout is improved IMO, a separate side for each player. I'm not sure how that will scale for fewer than 5 players, but we'll see I suppose. The Emperor/Consul/Senator pieces look lame compared to the old ones, but I'll probably just use the ones from my old game if they really bother me.


Does the shape of the track matter? Rectangle, hexagon, or circle, the colosseums are still the same distance apart(I assume. Hard to count with the provided pictures).
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Mike Holzman
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Strmtrper6 wrote:
albynomonk wrote:
I don't mind the new art style at all. The new board layout is improved IMO, a separate side for each player. I'm not sure how that will scale for fewer than 5 players, but we'll see I suppose. The Emperor/Consul/Senator pieces look lame compared to the old ones, but I'll probably just use the ones from my old game if they really bother me.


Does the shape of the track matter? Rectangle, hexagon, or circle, the colosseums are still the same distance apart(I assume. Hard to count with the provided pictures).


I must admit, I counted and they look to be the same distance.
 
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John Drake
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Gar Per
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DavidT wrote:
venrondua wrote:
bigGameGeek wrote:
And please people, it says very clearly at the bottom of the page the colosseum will NOT be plain white, so stop complaining about that please?


That information is new (along with the mock up's for the colosseums, which I think look good). When the Kickstarter first went up it wasn't as clear.


The video at the top of the page has been there since the Kickstarter launched, and the components in that video show full art. It was pretty clear, even if it wasn't as clear as it could be.


This is Kickstarter. If it is in any way unclear, I assume there is wiggle room for the creator to screw the backers.

I "knew" they were prototypes. That doesn't mean I should trust or assume that until it is spelled out. Some publishers have shipped games without boxes (didn't say there'd be a box!), sold bits that sure seemed like they were "exclusive" later (it was exclusive...for a while!), etc. Don't assume!

Bottom line - They should have spelled it out clearly from the start. In any other case, buyer beware.
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Jeremy Hope
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After mulling it over since the project launched, I've decided to pull my pledge. The new art direction is just too awful when I can get the original still new for less than the new one. The 'deluxe' new meeples are also just awful and look like they belong on a preschoolers game. Lucky New Zealand still has some of the old one left so I won't miss out
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Mitch Lavender
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Taegukki wrote:
After mulling it over since the project launched, I've decided to pull my pledge. The new art direction is just too awful when I can get the original still new for less than the new one. The 'deluxe' new meeples are also just awful and look like they belong on a preschoolers game. Lucky New Zealand still has some of the old one left so I won't miss out


Where!? Where can you get a new DOW version for less than $60? Even used copies are going for over $100 in all markets I've seen.
 
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Scott Seifert
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BaBang wrote:
picture


This hasn't been true for at least a decade, judging by the criticism of Glory to Rome's clipart cards.

But it's irrelevant either way -- the mechanics of this version are the same as the old one so obviously we're going to discuss the artwork.
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Michael Frost

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Apparently in New Zealand. Things are upside down down under? Go figure. (Though I was able to get my like new copy of the DOW version rather recently for just $70 at BGG. Glad I bought it when I did.)
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MitchLav wrote:
Taegukki wrote:
After mulling it over since the project launched, I've decided to pull my pledge. The new art direction is just too awful when I can get the original still new for less than the new one. The 'deluxe' new meeples are also just awful and look like they belong on a preschoolers game. Lucky New Zealand still has some of the old one left so I won't miss out


Where!? Where can you get a new DOW version for less than $60? Even used copies are going for over $100 in all markets I've seen.


I recall someone from New Zealand mentioning quite sometime back that Colosseum was available in a store (stores?) over there. My guess is that it's at a local store, possibly with limited online sales. I bought a new-in-shrink copy about 15 months ago (how do I remember that clearly - it was at Christmas! ) for AUD 100 (about USD 75) at a store in Tasmania. They were not a traditional boardgame store, but rather a gift and toy store with a good boardgame section as well. I doubt the game was ever listed on their online website, and thus wouldn't have been 'known' to the general boardgamer who may have been looking online for a copy. The moral of the (long) story... there are still new copies around, but often they're hard to find.
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Srdj
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Interesting how there are so many negative comments and people disliking the artwork on the new ks version yet the game has been funded and beyond in such short time.
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Mitch Lavender
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Cro1 wrote:
Interesting how there are so many negative comments and people disliking the artwork on the new ks version yet the game has been funded and beyond in such short time.


The vocal minority scream loudest and most adamant about... whatever. This gives the effect of being more than just a handful of people who are complaining.

I backed this game on day one, but yeah. I think the art is too cartoonish and if I could get a new DOW version for less than $100, I'd buy it instead. I just won't let the fact that the art is less than satisfactory keep me from getting a game I have played and know is good, and want to own.
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Mike Forrey
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BaBang wrote:


I guess you totally missed the part where this is supposed to be a collectors/special edition of the game? Which means it has upgraded components for a premium price. Nobody is arguing it's a bad game because its not but what people are having an issue with is art that is lacking and no real upgraded components for the price they are setting on it.

Looking at this Kickstarter I am now trying to understand how they were able to make the deluxe edition of Orleans for the price they sold it at?? That game is a REAL deluxe edition with vastly more upgrades to the components than this one. My only guess would be that they paid a metric ton for art that I personally consider garbage.
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Jeff Khoury
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Cro1 wrote:
Interesting how there are so many negative comments and people disliking the artwork on the new ks version yet the game has been funded and beyond in such short time.


While indeed true, no one knows just how much this KS could have been funded with appealing components as opposed to the dreck they're selling. Presentation counts.
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Michael Frost

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If anyone wants to see a recent true "premium" edition of an old great game, see the new Mexica! They improved everything. And kept the price reasonable. So better components. Better rule book. Just took a great game and made it...greater! I know that is what I had been hoping would happen with Colosseum. Therein lies a disappointment. Great game. But the new edition just doesn't have that "wow" factor.
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Jeff M
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Cro1 wrote:
Interesting how there are so many negative comments and people disliking the artwork on the new ks version yet the game has been funded and beyond in such short time.


If I didn't already own the prior version of this game I'd be pledging for this campaign also... and swallowing my disappointment at the artwork.shake
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trevor

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bearn wrote:


I guess you totally missed the part where this is supposed to be a collectors/special edition of the game?


You do realize words like "Collectors" and "Special" edition are subjective...........
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Gar Per
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bigGameGeek wrote:
bearn wrote:


I guess you totally missed the part where this is supposed to be a collectors/special edition of the game?


You do realize words like "Collectors" and "Special" edition are subjective...........


That's true. Some people collect total trash like this edition of Colosseum.

Of course, as I pointed out when publishers abuse "pocket" sized games to mean "these might be crammable into cargo pants with a hydraulic press", we should probably aim for the use of terms that fit the most common or most practical use and not just "it is technically correct because it might apply one out of a thousand times" use.

If 99 collectors out of 100 want the one edition over another, then that is the collector's edition, regardless of what labels are arbitrarily applied to any other.
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trevor

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nate_lockhart wrote:

That's true. Some people collect total trash like this edition of Colosseum.

Of course, as I pointed out when publishers abuse "pocket" sized games to mean "these might be crammable into cargo pants with a hydraulic press", we should probably aim for the use of terms that fit the most common or most practical use and not just "it is technically correct because it might apply one out of a thousand times" use.

If 99 collectors out of 100 want the one edition over another, then that is the collector's edition, regardless of what labels are arbitrarily applied to any other.


Well, again, saying this edition is "trash" is subjective. Many people are buying this game for gameplay, not the art, believe it or not. Though many people, like my wife for instance, like the cartoony art and hated the bland, monotone art of the first edition.

Again, even if 99 out of 100 (not sure you can prove those arbitrary statistics) want something, labeling it as such is still subjective, unless you can point me to a clear definition of what a "Collector's edition" should be..... though I'm pretty sure there are actually more people that like this art than you give credit for. People who complain are normally always louder than people who appreciate something.

In my opinion, if you collect it, then that makes you a collector. Then it's your edition, therefore it's a "Collector's edition" to you. Again, this is semantics, what we are really talking about is people who are angry because they assumed they were getting a product that didn't happen
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bigGameGeek wrote:

Well, again, saying this edition is "trash" is subjective. Many people are buying this game for gameplay, not the art, believe it or not. Though many people, like my wife for instance, like the cartoony art and hated the bland, monotone art of the first edition.


I can't thumb this comment enough - I totally respect the people who prefer the first edition and understand exactly why, but there's a whole lot of "my opinion is correct" going on in this thread.

The art is not objectively bad. It's stylistic, yes, and to most it is much more "family friendly", "cartoonish", etc. But technically, the art is done well, and there are clearly people who like it.

I think the biggest issue is simply that this remake did not meet the expectations of some undetermined amount of the crowd who regarded the game well in its first incarnation. That's not to say they expected something better (implying an objectively worse product now), but I mean the expectations were simply different. This new version has a different style to it altogether, and one in particular that can be very jarring to those expecting something else.

It's okay to be disappointed with the style change, and nobody can fault you for that. But it doesn't make it objectively trash - and my guess is that it will actually be a very good change for the sales of the game as our little burgeoning hobby continues to expand (and our player demographics expand along with it!).
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Gar Per
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bigGameGeek wrote:

In my opinion, if you collect it, then that makes you a collector. Then it's your edition, therefore it's a "Collector's edition" to you. Again, this is semantics, what we are really talking about is people who are angry because they assumed they were getting a product that didn't happen


Oh. Okay. Everything is a collector's edition in your universe and words have no meaning. Got it.

At least I don't have to wait 7 months to figure out who Negan hit in the skull with a baseball bat. I've figured it out.
 
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Anthony Baldassar
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I don't like the new art work, also my understanding of the term collectors edition would mean to me something a collector would seek out - as I've learned through collecting verious things when you see collectors edition stamped on something it normally warns collectors to stay away, something a collector is looking for normally doesn't have the branding collectors edition stamped on the product. In all reality for myself a collectors edition normally means nothing and I need to weigh the components vs game play vs price point
I own several games of different edition and not really because they play differently it's because the original provides some good memories while the new version normally brings the game into the current demand, time period, just makes the game up to date. It's a great game as I said before and people shouldn't be turned off just because of the art, but this is one that will not be included in my collection next to my original copy. I see no overwhelming changes that make this version superior to the original and the price point is a joke. I'm sorry but $80 msrp $60 Kickstarter sorry I don't get it.


bigGameGeek wrote:
nate_lockhart wrote:

That's true. Some people collect total trash like this edition of Colosseum.

Of course, as I pointed out when publishers abuse "pocket" sized games to mean "these might be crammable into cargo pants with a hydraulic press", we should probably aim for the use of terms that fit the most common or most practical use and not just "it is technically correct because it might apply one out of a thousand times" use.

If 99 collectors out of 100 want the one edition over another, then that is the collector's edition, regardless of what labels are arbitrarily applied to any other.


Well, again, saying this edition is "trash" is subjective. Many people are buying this game for gameplay, not the art, believe it or not. Though many people, like my wife for instance, like the cartoony art and hated the bland, monotone art of the first edition.

Again, even if 99 out of 100 (not sure you can prove those arbitrary statistics) want something, labeling it as such is still subjective, unless you can point me to a clear definition of what a "Collector's edition" should be..... though I'm pretty sure there are actually more people that like this art than you give credit for. People who complain are normally always louder than people who appreciate something.

In my opinion, if you collect it, then that makes you a collector. Then it's your edition, therefore it's a "Collector's edition" to you. Again, this is semantics, what we are really talking about is people who are angry because they assumed they were getting a product that didn't happen
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James Clarke
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nate_lockhart wrote:
Oh. Okay. Everything is a collector's edition in your universe and words have no meaning. Got it.


Hey! We heard that. You take that back!

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