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Subject: Kickstarter is up rss

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Kyle A
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I did a comparison of the two editions and here are my subjective observations. Image below taken from game page (not mine). I compared that with the images on the KS page.



- Board - Close enough. The player spots have been rearranged to be 5 sided, instead of 4 sided. Makes sense to me. Probably functionally better and aesthetically, I like it. The background art stands out more in the new version and I like the way those buildings look in the corners, nothing offensive there. Actually the muted colors of the DOW version kind of blend in with the player spots and tile spots and blur things together. I think the new board is an upgrade over the previous one. It's not like there's a big smiling face on the board.

- Tiles/Chits - It is hard to tell about the square tiles (the event asset tokens I am assuming?) due to the small picture. The DOW version actually looks pretty cartoony here IMO. Overall I don't see anything to take issue here

- Colosseum Pieces - DOW got these right. I hope the new ones don't have that white border around the outside. Please fill that bleed area in! Looks terrible. My first real complaint. However, I am hoping and expecting TMG to get these right. If that white border is still left, I will end up coloring it in somehow.

- Meeples - DOW got these right. Not a fan of the new ones, even screen printed. **See below

- Rest of components - I think it's safe to say the coins are an upgrade. Other than that, we can't really tell, but based on Orleans I am willing to bet the components will be nice.

I do not own the DOW version and I was very much looking forward to the reprint. I was horrified at first reading this thread. Some of you guys can be really negative, and I am glad you all have your DOW versions but this thread alone almost wrote this game off for me. It wasn't until I did a side by side comparison of the components that I realized most of you are making a mountain out of a molehill (again, my opinion, not calling you guys wrong).

**I upgrade my games, and the meeples will be the first thing to go. It will be very easy and cheap to find better ones, or make better ones that are more akin to the DOW version.

I will be backing
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Matthew Gabbert
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Highland Cow wrote:
nate_lockhart wrote:
Oh. Okay. Everything is a collector's edition in your universe and words have no meaning. Got it.


Hey! We heard that. You take that back!



See! These pawns from the old King Edition were clearly superior to those in the forthcoming so-called Emperor's Edition. TMG, take notice!
 
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Seth Jaffee
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Thank you for your frank evaluation!

alexankh wrote:
I hope the new ones don't have that white border around the outside. Please fill that bleed area in! Looks terrible.

Are you referring to the prototype (no-art) pieces shown in a couple of the pictures? TMG added a full art render of the Colosseum pieces to the KS page, check it out and see if that addresses your concern about these bits.

There definitely won't be any unprinted (white) cardboard in the game!
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Kyle A
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I am talking about this image. I am hoping the white border is filled in with something.



Thanks for the response. I mean terrible in the best way possible, honest.

Keep up the good work!
 
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Shane Laporte
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[q="alexankh"]I am talking about this image. I am hoping the white border is filled in with something.




It's possible that border you're talking about might be for the different colours of the colosseums. So for the red player that border might be red, and so on.

For me, having played the original, I'm backing the new version because I feel that it's an upgrade in every respect. Especially the board. The DOW board is messy looking and unattractive. The original pawns were nice, but I'll be happy with wooden meeples. The meeples from Steamworks, the other TMG game I own, are very nice. I'm confident they're going to do a good job. I'm sure they feel the pressure and don't want to let people down.

Can't wait to get my copy. I just can just hear those metal coins clinking on my game table...
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Jeremy Hope
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MitchLav wrote:
Taegukki wrote:
After mulling it over since the project launched, I've decided to pull my pledge. The new art direction is just too awful when I can get the original still new for less than the new one. The 'deluxe' new meeples are also just awful and look like they belong on a preschoolers game. Lucky New Zealand still has some of the old one left so I won't miss out


Where!? Where can you get a new DOW version for less than $60? Even used copies are going for over $100 in all markets I've seen.

There are heaps of copies left in New Zealand haha, I got lucky.
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Dan Green
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An update went out a few hours ago with some new info:

In addition to the silk-screened meeples, the game will now include sticker sheets for both the full color versions of the silk-screened images, and a new alternate art sticker with a "more serious feel". Image is below - I think it looks much better!


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Gergo Tothmihaly
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bigGameGeek wrote:
if you collect it, then that makes you a collector. Then it's your edition, therefore it's a "Collector's edition" to you.
I hope this works the other way around too. Being the sovereign owner of an Emperor's Edition makes me an Emperor!
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Mike DiLisio
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While still not a huge fan of the art direction, those meeples are much better in my opinion.
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Pauly Paul
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Day2Dan wrote:
An update went out a few hours ago with some new info:

In addition to the silk-screened meeples, the game will now include sticker sheets for both the full color versions of the silk-screened images, and a new alternate art sticker with a "more serious feel". Image is below - I think it looks much better!




It's cool the have options for people to choose from. The silkscreening, stickers or stickers with alternative art (as seen here). I like the look of these ones

Edit: Here is a link to the update for those interested
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Mike Holzman
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I did a quick (not perfect) mockup of the new meeples on the board with my meager photo editing skills for comparison.

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Zack Roehr
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The stickers are "better", sure. I was hoping for actual different meeples (shapes / molds, anything) when they said they were looking into other options... not just stickers. But it is an improvement and those of us who want to play the game lack a better option and so will back.

I also share the concern that the silk screening will show around the edge of the stickers.

 
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James Clarke
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Day2Dan wrote:
An update went out a few hours ago with some new info:

In addition to the silk-screened meeples, the game will now include sticker sheets for both the full color versions of the silk-screened images, and a new alternate art sticker with a "more serious feel". Image is below - I think it looks much better!




For some reason, makes me think of this

 
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Seth Jaffee
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Highland Cow wrote:
Day2Dan wrote:
An update went out a few hours ago with some new info:

In addition to the silk-screened meeples, the game will now include sticker sheets for both the full color versions of the silk-screened images, and a new alternate art sticker with a "more serious feel". Image is below - I think it looks much better!




For some reason, makes me think of this


I guess that means it's doing its job then...
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Peter Encheff
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DavidT wrote:
justrick wrote:
DavidT wrote:
With the exception of Orleans and maybe Kemet, you're not really comparing apples to apples.


All of these games are at or around the $60 mark on Amazon, Coolstuff, and Miniature Market.


And Colosseum will be at or around the $45 mark when it hits those same outlets. It's a cheaper game.


Isn't the point of a kickstarter to market proof interest and finance a full reprint as a business venture? Why should KS backers pay MSRP? The way i view projects on KS is, there should be a "Great deal" to entice investors. There should be a substantial savings. And from the way it looks in it's current state, the presentation is poor, unfinished art, logistics are uncertain. It seems very amateur, like they are just fishing to see what happens. There seems to be zero investment on their part other than 'buying the rights'. Drop the boat in the river and ride the current... ?

Looks like a $35 game to me. The art does not feel right with the metal coins. Metal coins give out a "realism" vibe.

Add a regular edition to KS
Drop the metal coins, sell at $25 early bird, 2nd wave $30.
You'll make a ton of money.


Edit: I do not own a DoW Original, but would gladly pay the currently bloated price for well preserved copy, to an extent of course. Everyone is different in their budget and/or 'ocd' quirks.
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David Tolin
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SmirnoffPete wrote:
DavidT wrote:
justrick wrote:
DavidT wrote:
With the exception of Orleans and maybe Kemet, you're not really comparing apples to apples.


All of these games are at or around the $60 mark on Amazon, Coolstuff, and Miniature Market.


And Colosseum will be at or around the $45 mark when it hits those same outlets. It's a cheaper game.


Isn't the point of a kickstarter to market proof interest and finance a full reprint as a business venture? Why should KS backers pay MSRP? The way i view projects on KS is, there should be a "Great deal" to entice investors. There should be a substantial savings. And from the way it looks in it's current state, the presentation is poor, unfinished art, logistics are uncertain. It seems very amateur, like they are just fishing to see what happens. There seems to be zero investment on their part other than 'buying the rights'. Drop the boat in the river and ride the current... ?

Looks like a $35 game to me. The art does not feel right with the metal coins. Metal coins give out a "realism" vibe.

Add a regular edition to KS
Drop the metal coins, sell at $25 early bird, 2nd wave $30.
You'll make a ton of money.


Edit: I do not own a DoW Original, but would gladly pay the currently bloated price for well preserved copy, to an extent of course. Everyone is different in their budget and/or 'ocd' quirks.


I don't disagree with anything you're saying. My point was not that this version of Colosseum is worth $60. I was only pointing out that it is cheaper than games with an MSRP of $100.
 
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Robert Ell
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SmirnoffPete wrote:

Isn't the point of a kickstarter to market proof interest and finance a full reprint as a business venture? Why should KS backers pay MSRP? The way i view projects on KS is, there should be a "Great deal" to entice investors. There should be a substantial savings. And from the way it looks in it's current state, the presentation is poor, unfinished art, logistics are uncertain. It seems very amateur, like they are just fishing to see what happens. There seems to be zero investment on their part other than 'buying the rights'. Drop the boat in the river and ride the current... ?


This describes everything TMG does that isn't a straight reprint.
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Peter Encheff
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So, I decided that I may have been too harsh on TMG in my previous post that got quoted few times. Because art can be subjective and biased. I wanted to post and maybe soften my position a little. But, couldn't.

My only experience with TMG is playing Orleans. And I freakin LOVED that game. Amazing game in the worker placement department... The Art fit the game perfectly I though. I played a base version 5-6 times. Then last week, i played a so called Deluxe version... Let me tell you, there was nothing 'deluxe' about it. Wooden discs with stickers.... and they removed the cool looking 'saint' dude with a plain wooden head. Got rid of the printed produce and had basic shapes replace them. So hard to distinguish at times.

Decided to dig a bit. Apparently, that's not even their art or their game, they just kickstarted the English reprint...

It's a fantastic game! Every lover of worker placement should try it at least once, in fact I'd go as far as saying it's a must own. But the TMG Deluxe reprint would be a waste of money. Just get the basic version. Save the component art that 'dLp Games' made back in the 2014 original.

So to sum this up, i guess I should just ad my biased production quality and overall look and feel for components, still biased, opinion - I don't think TMG is on par with DoW! I just purchased a well preserved original Colosseum on ebay [$cough$,cough$] for my collection.

But! But if for example they [TMG] will sell this at my previously mentioned $30-$40 price point,.. Every fan of auction bidding set collection should try this awesome game [Colosseum] Maybe even own it!
The game it self deserves to continue existing!
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David Tolin
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SmirnoffPete wrote:
So, I decided that I may have been too harsh on TMG in my previous post that got quoted few times. Because art can be subjective and biased. I wanted to post and maybe soften my position a little. But, couldn't.

My only experience with TMG is playing Orleans. And I freakin LOVED that game. Amazing game in the worker placement department... The Art fit the game perfectly I though. I played a base version 5-6 times. Then last week, i played a so called Deluxe version... Let me tell you, there was nothing 'deluxe' about it. Wooden discs with stickers.... and they removed the cool looking 'saint' dude with a plain wooden head. Got rid of the printed produce and had basic shapes replace them. So hard to distinguish at times.

Decided to dig a bit. Apparently, that's not even their art or their game, they just kickstarted the English reprint...

It's a fantastic game! Every lover of worker placement should try it at least once, in fact I'd go as far as saying it's a must own. But the TMG Deluxe reprint would be a waste of money. Just get the basic version. Save the component art that 'dLp Games' made back in the 2014 original.

So to sum this up, i guess I should just ad my biased production quality and overall look and feel for components, still biased, opinion - I don't think TMG is on par with DoW! I just purchased a well preserved original Colosseum on ebay [$cough$,cough$] for my collection.

But! But if for example they [TMG] will sell this at my previously mentioned $30-$40 price point,.. Every fan of auction bidding set collection should try this awesome game [Colosseum] Maybe even own it!
The game it self deserves to continue existing!


Well, obviously YMMV, but I think deluxe Orleans is plenty "deluxe." Great metal coins, the wooden discs are fantastic replacements for the original cardboard (and they don't get worn like the cardboard), and the cardboard components are higher quality. Also, it comes with all of the material necessary for an additional player. I don't care for the resource replacements, but all of the original cardboard tokens are included, too.
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Dan Green
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SmirnoffPete wrote:

But! But if for example they [TMG] will sell this at my previously mentioned $30-$40 price point,.. Every fan of auction bidding set collection should try this awesome game [Colosseum] Maybe even own it!
The game it self deserves to continue existing!


I think that price point is incredibly unrealistic even with the mentioned downgrades, unless you are referring to the final price at a bargain bin online retailer. But there's no way in hell the company could justify its costs with a $30-40 MSRP.
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Matthew Gabbert
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Day2Dan wrote:
SmirnoffPete wrote:

But! But if for example they [TMG] will sell this at my previously mentioned $30-$40 price point,.. Every fan of auction bidding set collection should try this awesome game [Colosseum] Maybe even own it!
The game it self deserves to continue existing!


I think that price point is incredibly unrealistic even with the mentioned downgrades, unless you are referring to the final price at a bargain bin online retailer. But there's no way in hell the company could justify its costs with a $30-40 MSRP.


Indeed. It should be noted that DoW released their version nine years ago with an MSRP of $50* and (to some) superior artwork and components. It was not considered a commercial success.

*-Btw, just based on inflation alone, $50 in 2007 = $57.18 today.
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Dan Green
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mgabbert wrote:

Indeed. It should be noted that DoW released their version nine years ago with an MSRP of $50 and (to some) superior artwork and components. It was not considered a commercial success.


One is left to wonder whether or not the artwork really was superior in the edition that was not a commercial success. whistle
 
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David Tolin
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Day2Dan wrote:
mgabbert wrote:

Indeed. It should be noted that DoW released their version nine years ago with an MSRP of $50 and (to some) superior artwork and components. It was not considered a commercial success.


One is left to wonder whether or not the artwork really was superior in the edition that was not a commercial success. whistle


Let's ask Van Gogh, Monet, or Gauguin.
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Peter Encheff
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DavidT wrote:
Day2Dan wrote:
mgabbert wrote:

Indeed. It should be noted that DoW released their version nine years ago with an MSRP of $50 and (to some) superior artwork and components. It was not considered a commercial success.


One is left to wonder whether or not the artwork really was superior in the edition that was not a commercial success. whistle


Let's ask Van Gogh, Monet, or Gauguin.


Love it! You're awesome! Great discussion guys.
 
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Matthew Gabbert
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DavidT wrote:
Day2Dan wrote:
mgabbert wrote:

Indeed. It should be noted that DoW released their version nine years ago with an MSRP of $50 and (to some) superior artwork and components. It was not considered a commercial success.


One is left to wonder whether or not the artwork really was superior in the edition that was not a commercial success. whistle


Let's ask Van Gogh, Monet, or Gauguin.


We could also ask DoW and TMG whether they consider themselves primarily artists or businesses.
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