Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
23 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Complaint Department

Subject: Concerns with the BGG Facebook group rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Tanis O'Connor

Renton
Washington
msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
*waves*

I'm not currently a member of this group, but its members don't seem particularly welcome to women or their experiences. It seems like the admins over there are also the admins over here--might it be possible for one of the admins there to at least encourage their membership to be civil?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/132851767828/permalink/10154...
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been banning people who make abusive comments as quickly as they pop up. Report them if you see them.
40 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JM Bosch
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a little tough to report abusive comments when the threads where people are trying to discuss an important issue keep getting deleted without word from any mods (presumably) because of the abusive comments certain members flood the threads with. Just deleting the threads literally hides the evidence of abuse (indirectly supporting the abusers' claims that such abuse doesn't happen in boardgaming because no one can see it anymore), and contributes to gaslighting. You can't report a comment that isn't there anymore.

Likewise, deleting threads without any word from the mods bolsters the abusers, as they take it as evidence that the mods agree that some important board game issues should not be discussed on the FB group at all (not just that some people use it as an opportunity to be abusive), and that their unpunished abusive comments are supported by the mods.

And this brings up the other issue many were complaining about: the FB posting guidelines are either vague or not at all evenly applied, and people posting in the FB group politely asking the mods for clarification on the posting guidelines also get deleted without response. These guidelines have been interpreted in many, many different ways, and no one has clarified what is a correct interpretation and what isn't, but plenty seem willing to use thread deletion to support their interpretation:
Quote:
Posts about board games are ok, be it people talking about a game they played or created. If you are posting a Kickstarter or other crowd-funding announcement - please limit this to a single post. Please do not post countdowns, or other types of updates.
Posts about popular interpretation of gender representation in someone's boardgame kickstarter are not deleted, so we assume they're allowed. But no matter how many times people post an article trying to start a conversation about chronic, toxic, gendered behavior in the boardgame community that keeps others from being a part of it, it's deleted without comment. Is it because of the specific article? Is it because the post draws so many abusive commenters? Is it because any discussion of the issue is off-limits? We don't know because no mod told anyone anything.

In that silence, repeated deletion of only one type of thread says quite a bit to both the abusers and people trying to have an honest discussion. Many people are using the threads' deletions to claim talking about social issues plaguing the board game community is "off-topic," and then they go on to talk about their favorite snacks for game night, or post a giant d20 you can put nachos in, or to ask for help picking a website name, or complain about there being too many Cthulhu themed games, or to post yet another picture of someone's collection without comment.

Can you see why people are asking for clarifications and review of mod policies when abusers use the mods' actions to justify their abuse? Can you tell people why the 8-or-so threads deleted in one day were deleted, and not just the abusers having their accounts banned from the group? Can you see how this maybe doesn't give people confidence in the current reporting mechanism and its follow-through? Can you see how a woman previously traumatized by the behavior she's experienced in the gaming community, seeing these threads, the comments, and the threads' deletion, might be discouraged from joining the group?
28 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JM Bosch
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Seriously, a hell of a lot of BGG users are in the FB group right now stating that no discussions of social issues within the boardgame community should be on the BGG FB group. And they are continuing to take thread deletions as support from moderators for this interpretation of the rules. Much more civil and informative discussions have happened on the topic here on BGG forums. Why on earth are such myopic interpretations of super basic "talk about boardgames" posting guidelines allowed to continue without comment?

None of them are complaining the slightest about other "off-topic" threads in the FB group, yet get behind this "don't talk about how the board game community looks, feels, and acts differently to different people" cause vociferously because they read mod approval in mod inaction. This isn't okay.

Yet again, the thread isn't left standing while simply banning people obviously just commenting in order to cause problems, or insult and abuse others. Instead the whole thread is deleted in a blink, no comment is made from mods, and everyone has to either assume the mods don't care about the issue, or are taking a very particular stance on the issue.

EDIT - Is this supposed to be the mods' stance?
http://imgur.com/kPIk1Gq
http://imgur.com/23jwBjB
It would help if, ya know, the mods would say it instead of this pretty snarky way to try and address the issue, especially considering it does nothing to clarify the issue with the posting guidelines being too vague or very unevenly applied.

9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andre Parker
United States
El Paso
Texas
flag msg tools
I'm glad someone saw that, too, and got screenshots!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JM Bosch
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you for finally posting something. I appreciate it.

It still does not address the issue of the vague posting guidelines in the FB group, and I am concerned about why a legitimate thread discussing board games that handle social justice issues was deleted when only a handful of people (reported as requested) were purposefully trolling it with racism and efforts to derail it. I think a thread like that has every right to exist amongst the other discussions and recommendations of games of different themes and focuses.

If a few individuals are purposefully causing trouble, ban them as advertised and let the others continue on with the discussion.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul L
Australia
Canberra
ACT
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Agreed, the post about the matter doesn't really resolve anything. What are the boundaries and why are they there? Simply telling us that certain topics are off limits is a bit high handed.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
adrienne
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What's most concerning to me is that by shutting down the conversation at BGG FB, a lot of the conversation is lost. I know there are tons of people who post on FB that aren't even aware this site, and it's forums, exist - they're not going to sign up just to discuss harassment. Then there's people like me who lurk on BGG because I don't feel welcome, because I haven't been here forever or fit into some of the cliques that exist.

But yo, keep the 8-9 posts in a week from people reposting their KS over and over again even though that's literally the only rule explicitly stated in the group into. No need to discuss real issues at all.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JM Bosch
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been archiving as many of the deleted FB threads as I can. If you need any of them, message me.

That said, it's definitely a disservice to people who only use the BGG FB group to tell them go discuss social issues elsewhere, or in specific BGG forums. A lot of people generally find FB more open and and accessible than the deeply nested forums of an old gaming fan site, and I'm not surprised considering the kind of stuff I've seen here on BGG. Many would see such encouragement as encouragement for the discussion to die as it gets sectioned off into one particular corner.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
adrienne
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for archiving, I do think it's important to keep trying to make headway. That said, because of the dismissal of this topic on FB, I dusted off this very unused account in order to step up and be a voice today, and hopefully that will make a difference somewhere!
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul L
Australia
Canberra
ACT
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, the stony silence from the fb mods, and the inconsistent moderating is the only answer we get. Want to talk about misogyny on the fb group? Deleted. Anything else, barring spam posts? That's fine. Not sure why pandering to butt-hurt 'dominant demographic' posters is such a priority, but hey, that's what got our society to where it is now, so why change it up?
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
United States
Ronkonkoma
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is surprising because .... ????
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Grange
New Zealand
New Plymouth
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not sure if best to add to this or make my own thread. (ETA: Let me know if I'm highjacking this particular thread - I'll move my post to a new thread if needed)

I was in the BGG FB group. A few months ago it suddenly disappeared.

I asked someone else if it had been deleted, and she made some inquires and came back to me to say that no - it was still there but that I had been banned.

Apparently this was because I had liked a post "about" monopoly. (I can only assume a joke or something making fun of it)

There was no attempt to contact me to inform me that I had done something wrong (have I? I really still don't know what.) or that I was in danger of being banned for any reason.

Is this common behavior my the admins / moderators of the fb group?

And does anyone really think that this sort of behavior is acceptable for people charged with the responsibility of moderating a fb group?

Anyone have any insight that can help me understand this?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Liam
Scotland
flag msg tools
admin
badge
I am BGG's official honey trap
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Nathan,

I'd contact the Community Manager:

Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Sears
Wales
Hengoed
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Unfortunately you get bigot arses everywhere. On here, on forums, everywhere. In my opinion those individuals should be named and shamed. One particularly well known designer was a bigot idiot towards me on one Facebook group. I personally have never seen inappropriate comments towards women in particular. They should be reported and banned if they are showing discriminatory behaviour or bullying.

I'd very much welcome you into the group so if you do join be brave and be quirky with your replies to idots

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Lawry
Germany
Grafenwoehr Garrison
US Armed Forces - Europe
flag msg tools
mb
Why when I post a game link from BGG to facebook the link doesn't work?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grant
United States
Cuyahoga Falls
Ohio
flag msg tools
One of the best gaming weekends in Ohio since 2010. Search facebook for "BOGA Weekend Retreat" for more info!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lawrymark wrote:
Why when I post a game link from BGG to facebook the link doesn't work?
Example?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
They call me....
United States
Riverside
California
flag msg tools
Games? People still play games??
badge
Specious arguments are not proof of trollish intent.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The great thing about facebook, in contrast with BGG, is that you can set up your own groups and discuss whatever the hell you want, with zero interference from BGG moderators or administrators. You can set them up to discuss BGG Moderation, for example, and all the disgruntled and angry recipients of ham-fisted moderation can convene there and argue endlessly about who has been most adversely impacted by BGG policies on any given day. You can include BGG in the group name, and if you make it clear that the group is not organized, sanctioned, or otherwise affiliated with BGG, people will be able to say whatever they and the moderators of YOUR group want. I think it's great that BGG seems to always inspire such ardent desire not only to participate in discussions about games, but also discussions about the administration of BGG. If people in my country would just devote one tenth the energy to worrying about the administration thereof that they devote to the fruitless pursuit of justice and harmony at BGG, the entire world would transform overnight into Nirvana.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Keiser
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MisterCranky wrote:
The great thing about facebook, in contrast with BGG, is that you can set up your own groups and discuss whatever the hell you want, with zero interference from BGG moderators or administrators. You can set them up to discuss BGG Moderation, for example, and all the disgruntled and angry recipients of ham-fisted moderation can convene there and argue endlessly about who has been most adversely impacted by BGG policies on any given day. You can include BGG in the group name, and if you make it clear that the group is not organized, sanctioned, or otherwise affiliated with BGG, people will be able to say whatever they and the moderators of YOUR group want. I think it's great that BGG seems to always inspire such ardent desire not only to participate in discussions about games, but also discussions about the administration of BGG. If people in my country would just devote one tenth the energy to worrying about the administration thereof that they devote to the fruitless pursuit of justice and harmony at BGG, the entire world would transform overnight into Nirvana.

Facebook is like putting a 12 gauge in your mouth and pulling the trigger - your brain exits the brainpan and turns to mush.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
This post has been removed by a moderator - Personal attack
This post has been removed by a moderator - Personal attack
Response to removed post
Response to removed post