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Subject: Rules updated rss

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Alan
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Today, Lookout released updated rules for Oh My Goods! http://lookout-spiele.de/2016/04/06/regelupdate-oh-my-goods-...

"The rules are intended to make the construction of production chains more attractive." and "Lucky was reduced" (free translation from the site).

Unfortunately, it is not available in English (yet?)
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Bjørnar Løseth
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With my rusty german, I for one can't find any big changes?
 
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Oliver Paul
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bloseth wrote:
With my rusty german, I for one can't find any big changes?


Isn't this just the variant proposed by the designer in another thread:

Quote:
The first edition - Royal Goods - targeted casual gamers, so short playing time (~30 minutes) was more important than reducing luck. Now that this game became popular among experienced gamers, they asked for more control and being able to use the production chains more often.

Therefore the 2nd edition of Oh My Goods - same material - has these 5 rule changes:
1. In phase I, before everybody gets 2 cards, everbody may exchange his/her complete handcards. So discard your complete hand and draw the same number of new cards.
2. If you hire an Assistant, you can't build this turn. More than 2 Assistants are allowed.
3. You don't loose the card you don't build but take it back on hand
4. In the very last round: Use all your production chains, no matter if there is a person working or not.
5. Market office: This gives you +1 card only if you have at most 3 handcards.

1+4 gives you a lot of control over your cards and allows you to use all yours production chains at least once. Dylan, I recommend you to give it another try with these rule changes.


I, for one, don't like the sound of these changes. Being able to flush your hand and get all new cards every single round, not losing the building if you can't build it, and using all your production chains in the last round make the game sound much less interesting to me.
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Alexander Pfister
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Thanks, Oliver, for citing the summary of the rule changes. These are the new rules of the 2nd edition. It reduces the randomness. But if you don't like them, stick to the old ones. It's all about having the most fun with this little card game.
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Oliver Paul
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AlexP wrote:
Thanks, Oliver, for citing the summary of the rule changes. These are the new rules of the 2nd edition. It reduces the randomness. But if you don't like them, stick to the old ones. It's all about having the most fun with this little card game.


Yeah, that's what I plan on doing! I really enjoy the fact that it's a small strategy game that still has some randomness. I'm really enjoying the push-your-luck nature of the market and the fact that you can't calculate your way to victory. Great game!
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Sarah
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I really like 1 and 4.
I am not sure about the others.

And I don't know if 1 and 4 are enough to make production chains more valueable or if the best winning strategy is still to build 7 cheap buildings as fast as possible. But I will definetely test it.
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Rene Raps
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Quote:
5. Market Office: This gives you +1 card only if you have at most 3 handcards.

So how many cards will I receive if I have build 2 Market Offices and have 3 handcards?
Do I receive 3 cards or 4 (instead of 2) in fase I?
 
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Alexander Pfister
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4 cards. The number of cards at the begining of phase I matter.
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Zen
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Doing a quick rundown of the new rules. Hopefully in a more official/clarifying way.

Quote:

1. In phase I, before everybody gets 2 cards, everybody may exchange his/her complete handcards. So discard your complete hand and draw the same number of new cards.

2. If you hire an Assistant, you can't build this turn. More than 2 Assistants are allowed.

3. You don't loose the card you don't build but take it back on hand

4. In the very last round: Use all your production chains, no matter if there is a person working or not.

5. Market office: This gives you +1 card only if you have at most 3 handcards.



1. There is now a Phase 0 which states, "You may discard your entire hand. If you do, draw that many cards."

2. In place/Instead of building, you may hire an Assistant this turn. If you do and you have an unbuilt building card, return that card into your hand. (You may have as many Assistants as you like during the game.)

3. During the Phase 4 of the final round, you may use all of your production chains; regardless of workers/assistants.

4. Market Office: At the beginning of Phase 1, if you have at most 3 cards in your hand, you may draw 1 extra card.

------
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Alexander Pfister
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#2 does not cover everything as you always get unbuild buildings back.

1. At the begining of phase I everbody may exchange his/her complete handcards. So discard your complete hand and draw the same number of new cards.

2. If you hire an Assistant, you can't build this turn. More than 2 Assistants are allowed.

3. You don't loose the card you don't build but take it back on hand

4. In the very last round: Use all your production chains, no matter if there is a person working or not.

5. Market office (+1 card): This gives you +1 card only if you have at most 3 handcards at the begining of phase I.
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Gillum the Stoor
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AlexP wrote:
4. In the very last round: Use all your production chains, no matter if there is a person working or not.

The current rule for Production Chains is "If a Building produced at least 1 Good, you can immediately use the Production Chain depicted at the bottom right any number of times."

Since the stated requirement is "Building produced at least 1 Good," it seems that that is what must be relaxed - not "there is a person working."

(In studying the rules just now, I was surprised to see that they do not seem to state explicitly that buildings do not produce without people!)

It seems that #4 might best be communicated in the Game End section after "play another complete round," with a sentence such as the following: "In this last round, players may use the Production Chains of all their buildings, including those that did not produce Goods - even those without a Worker or Assistant."
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Alexander Pfister
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gillum wrote:

(In studying the rules just now, I was surprised to see that they do not seem to state explicitly that buildings do not produce without people!)

Hmm, maybe this is a little bit of cultural difference in rules writing between Germany and America, I personally like rules to be short. Fortunately it's Mayfair task to do the English rules .
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Gillum the Stoor
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AlexP wrote:
gillum wrote:

(In studying the rules just now, I was surprised to see that they do not seem to state explicitly that buildings do not produce without people!)

Hmm, maybe this is a little bit of cultural difference in rules writing between Germany and America, I personally like rules to be short. Fortunately it's Mayfair task to do the English rules .

I think that the rules are clear.

But I went to look for the right place to say "except you don't need a worker/assistant for production chains in the final round," I couldn't find the right spot.


But I assume that I am correct that, on the final round (only), you can use a building's production chain without producing a good there normally.
 
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Melissa
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I especially like new rule number 5. We just played our first game using the original rules and my opponent was lucky enough to buy two +1 cards early while I never even had the option. The only reason he didn't beat me by a huge margin was because it was his first game and he was playing too conservatively. He had a large number of cards in his hand at the end of the game.

I'm interested in trying out new rule number 4. In our first game, using the original rules in the box, we found the longer production chains to be more cool than useful with respect to generating points, but maybe we just needed more plays to figure it out. In one of my future plays, I'm going to build windows whether it helps me win or not
 
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Alexander Pfister
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Why not use all new rules? They come in a package
Rule #5 is because with rule #1 handcards are more valueable.
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Melissa
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No worries, I'll be playing with all the new rules together

So, due to new rule #2, could I choose a building to build in Phase 2, but in Phase 4 change my mind and hire an assistant? (returning the building to my hand) I assume that is true, or would I have have to decide on building vs. hiring already in Phase 2? Also, I assume that returning the building to my hand happens at the end of the round so that it cannot be used for production.
 
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Gillum the Stoor
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mellyagain wrote:
Could I choose a building to build in Phase 2, but in Phase 4 change my mind and hire an assistant? (returning the building to my hand) I assume that is true, or would I have have to decide on building vs. hiring already in Phase 2? Also, I assume that returning the building to my hand happens at the end of the round so that it cannot be used for production.

This sounds right.

The idea is the following:

II (Sunrise): pick a building to build later, place it face down.
IV (Produce): normal production. You cannot use the face-down card.
IV (Build/Hire): build your face-down card, hire an assistant, or neither (but not both).

If you do not build your face-down card, take it back into your hand.
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Sarah
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I really liked the new rules, tried them yesterday.
The only thing I am still missing is a possibility to decide which ressources you get. Yesterday I took about 20 cards (several times discarded hand) and did not get one yellow card. Something like trade 3 cards for a ressource of your choice or maybe two equal cards for one ressource would be great.
 
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Alexander Pfister
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mellyagain wrote:

So, due to new rule #2, could I choose a building to build in Phase 2, but in Phase 4 change my mind and hire an assistant? (returning the building to my hand) I assume that is true, or would I have have to decide on building vs. hiring already in Phase 2? Also, I assume that returning the building to my hand happens at the end of the round so that it cannot be used for production.

Yes, you choose to build or hire in Phase 4.
Production is prior to building/hiring therefore you can't use the chosen building for production.
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Alexander Pfister
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Sarahmaus wrote:
I really liked the new rules, tried them yesterday.
The only thing I am still missing is a possibility to decide which ressources you get. Yesterday I took about 20 cards (several times discarded hand) and did not get one yellow card. Something like trade 3 cards for a ressource of your choice or maybe two equal cards for one ressource would be great.

The probability of not getting a yellow card within 20 cards is something like 0.17^20. And even lower, because cards are not returned (in german we say "ohne zurücklegen").
You were very, very unlucky.
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Aaron Seeber
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Regarding rules change #4, "In the very last round: Use all your production chains, no matter if there is a person working or not", I assume that in the last round these production chains still have to be used before building (such that you cannot take advantage of the building constructed in the last round) - am I correct?
 
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Alexander Pfister
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Correct, production is before building.
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Sarah
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AlexP wrote:

The probability of not getting a yellow card within 20 cards is something like 0.17^20. And even lower, because cards are not returned (in german we say "ohne zurücklegen").
You were very, very unlucky.


Only if the other players are not copying what you are building and have already used some yellow cards as goods or are collecting them on their hand to use them in their production chain later.
But anyway, great game.
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Alexander Pfister
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Good point.
 
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Gillum the Stoor
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The old Phase I was this: "The active player deals each player 2 cards into their hand."

With the new rules, the following happens first: "Jeder Spieler kann seine komplette Kartenhand abwerfen und die gleiche Anzahl Karten vom Nachziehstapel ziehen."

As expected, this translates as, "Each player may discard his entire hand of cards and draw the same number of cards from the deck."

Do all players discard (if they choose) and then all draw back?

Or does each player, in turn, discard (if desired) and then draw back - before the next player can discard?

There can be quite a difference late in the game. If the deck is low and players have relatively large hands, each is more likely to get some of the same cards back if the rule is that it's discard-and-redraw one at a time. If it's all-discard-then-all-draw, it's more likely that the cards will get redistributed among the players.

Either way, are decisions made simultaneously or in player order?

If the rule is all-discard-then-all-draw, and the decisions are in player order, my choice of whether to discard and redraw may be influenced by whether the players before me have decided to do the same (and thus perhaps give me the opportunity to redraw from a greater variety of cards).
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