Gromenauer Jaaarl
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Hello, I think i have not posted here yet. I am new to the game, still struggling with the rules. We have played a short scenario GE-FR, and now we are going for the Historical Game, leaving optional card selection for the future...

At the moment I have two questions about retreats:

1 - When you retreat more than 1 hex, and carry with you the units that you find across the way... all of them need to end in a single hex?

This is what I seem to get from the rules. However, I have a weak hope that I understood something wrong, like if the initial stack needs to go back 2 hexes and picks up a second stack, that second stack needs to move back two hexes too, not one and overstack with the first one.

In our current game, a stack with 5 steps is forced to retreat along with one with 4 steps, obviously losing 3 steps just because. Before applying attrition.

I can understand that unit can get routed, although we are now talking about corps and armies, probably entrenched who wouldn't simply rout in real life, but having to "kill" 3 corps just for "overstacking" in this case looks insane to me. Does it work this way?

2 - There is a rule for retreats
Quote:

4.2.5.1 Retreat Priorities
The owning faction must Retreat its units into a hex that meets the following priorities, which are checked in order:

Priority 1: The hex to be Retreated into must be farther away from the defending hex than any previous hex Retreated into, and it cannot contain an EZOC.

Priority 2: If no hex exists that meets Priority 1, then the Retreat must enter a hex that is farther away from the defending hex than any previous hex Retreated into, and it must contain a friendly ground, Airdrop, or Air unit.
I have read some debate about this, but nothing conclusive. The rule seems clear, however, in this case there seems to be a better founded doubt because of the meaning of EZOC negation. I mean, if the negation means that there is no EZOC, then I don't know what Priority 2 stand for, but I would like to know for sure that negation of an EZOC doesn't mean it does no longer exist. On EZOC:

Quote:
8.1 Enemy ZOC (EZOC)

A ZOC projected by an enemy unit is referred to as an Enemy Zone of Control (EZOC).

Clarification: Remember all non-phasing units are enemy units.

In some cases (as specified below and elsewhere), the presence of a friendly unit or Airdrop marker in a hex negates the effects of all EZOC projected in that hex.
"In some cases" means "for some purposes" or "in some situations"? I understood it like "in some situations", it means depending on which unit or marker is involved (for example partisan bases no, Inf yes). But my mate seems to believe it depends on which phase or which purpose, even if an INF unit is involved.

Quote:
Retreat: A unit cannot Retreat into a hex containing an EZOC, unless another friendly unit is in that hex. Clarification: Remember to follow Retreat Priorities (4.2.5.1). You must retreat into a hex without an EZOC if possible.
Again: Is there an EZOC when the EZOC is negated by friendly units?

P.D.: Ok, I am not deleting the 2nd point because may be helpful for someone who has the same doubts, but along the documentation of this question, I came to the conviction that the meaning the author gave to "in same cases" would be "for some purposes", that's the way the rules make (some) sense. Hence the clarifications in Mud and Storm...



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Joris
Netherlands
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1. Yes, that is how it works. Channeling retreats is an important tactic in this game
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Jeremy Fridy
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Yeah, I once channeled a weaker Axis ally right through Budapest (Guarded by a German Army,) and walked into the empty city. Victory!
 
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Bas de Bakker
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Note that stacking limits are only enforced at the end of the segment, so after attrition.
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Gromenauer Jaaarl
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Is that so? yes, isn't it? Thanks.

Retreating units may violate Stacking Limits during and at the end of their Retreat, but such stacks will have to conform to them when that Combat Segment is over.?

True, bro.

 
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Thomas Prowell
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As others have noted ...

Yes, you have to stack all the guys in the same hex, and

Overstacking is only figured at the end.

As for the design question of "why is this all happening?" it's how the system simulates blitzkrieg warfare and the creation of pockets of troops that surrender en masse.
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Gromenauer Jaaarl
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Thanks.
 
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Morgan Dennis
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So how about a slightly different situation?

A stack containing minor country "A" units is forced to retreat. The only available path contains units from minor country "B" (none in either force are Exp units). Does the stack retreat, picking up the minors from "B" with the combined stack suffering the full result at the end of the retreat path (and probably additional steps eliminated to prevent minor "A" from stacking with units of minor "B")? Or is the stack unable to retreat and the retreat result converted to losses?
 
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