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Subject: Memento - GAME OVER - GOOD WINS rss

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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Welcome to a Beowulf production of:

 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer
Memento Rules, Version 0.993

Rule #1: If you cannot be around to play this game, then please do not sign up.

Seriously. I don't care if this is your bestest, favorite-est movie of all time and you can recite it verbatim including timestamps. We know that all games suffer from low participation. With that said, Memento will be even more sensitive to players who don't put forth enough effort. You have to be willing to send lots of private messages, perform some basic bookkeeping, and develop your own intrigues. If you cannot be around to play, then do not sign up.


Overview

Leonard received a severe head injury while attempting to thwart his wife's murder. As a result, he can no longer create new memories. He longs for vengeance, but with every dawn he begins his search anew. He has learned to take Polaroid pictures of things, and to write himself notes. In this manner, he tries to carry information forward from day to day that he himself cannot remember.

Memento will be a game of intrigues and deduction, using the events of a standard Werewolf game as your clues. You will need to determine your own role, before you can pursue your victory conditions.


Mechanics

I will be using several different mechanics to simulate Leonard's confusion, and mental fog. It is my hope that the players' actions will thus cause "Leonard" (think of him as "the game," or as an NPC) to behave appropriately.

1. Most players will not know their roles. There will be standard Werewolf roles, but they will be assigned in secret. Not even the wolves will know of their own identities at the start of the game. There is one exception: Teddy Gammell, the unethical police officer who is eager to "help" Leonard, will be self-aware from the beginning.

2. Every night, each player will submit a name as his or her night orders. What happens with this name, exactly, depends upon the player's secret role:

- The Seer will be submitting the name of the person he will view for wolf/negative result. It is NOT a vote for the next "John G."

- The Sorceror will be submitting the name of the person she will view for seer/negative result. It is NOT a vote for the next "John G."

- Wolves will be submitting the name of the person who will be killed. They are NOT votes for the next "John G."

- The Wolf Cub will be submitting the name of the person he will view for Teddy/negative result. It is NOT a vote for the next "John G."

- Villagers (plain, non-special villagers) will be submitting the name of the person who WILL be elected as "John G." for the following day.

- Teddy Gammell's vote is not counted towards the election of the new "John G." However, in the event that the villager vote is a tie, then Teddy Gammell will be asked to choose a new John G. from the tied candidates. If there is a tie and Teddy has been killed, then I will randomly determine the next John G. from the tied candidates.

- Self-targeting (for views or for night kills) is not allowed.

3. Every morning, each player will receive a view result. Again, what this information may mean is dependent upon the role of the player:

- The Seer will receive a true view result. Since the Seer is not self-aware, the view result won't reveal the Seer's own status unless it is positive.

- The Sorceror will receive a true view result. Since the Sorceror is not self-aware, the view result won't reveal the Sorceror's own status unless it is positive.

- Wolves will receive a negative view result in all cases. A player might suspect herself of being a wolf if the person for whom she voted turns up dead in the morning...

- The Wolf Cub will receive a true view result. Since the Wolf Cub is not self-aware, the view result won't reveal the Wolf Cub's own status unless it is positive. The Wolf Cub loses its ability to view for Teddy when it gets promoted to Wolf.

- Villagers will receive negative view results in all cases.

- Teddy Gammell will be told the identity (but not the role) of the newly-elected John G., even if John G. is immediately killed by the wolves.

4. All players will have PM privileges. These chat rooms are going to be the centerpiece of the game, and where I expect most of the intrigues will occur. They are going to be administered differently than the ones to which you all have become accustomed:

   A. You will have unlimited PM's with each other. I will create chat rooms for every pair of players. Do you trust someone enough to tell them for whom you voted? If the wolves find each other, then their chat rooms essentially become wolf chats.

   B. The contents of these rooms will be "reset" at the end of each day. This step simulates Leonard's inability to create new memories. I will be adjusting the "view cutoff" time each day, so that your conversations from previous days will not be visible. PLEASE DO NOT COPY OR GEEKMAIL THE DAILY TRANSCRIPTS OF YOUR CHAT ROOMS TO SOME OTHER ACCOUNT OR LOCATION. You are all on your honor to play by the rules.

   C. You will have a chatroom with me, to ask any questions you may have, and in which you will submit your vote each night. You will also receive the results of your night action in this chatroom.

   D. YOU MAY NOT POST YOUR INDIVIDUAL VIEW RESULTS TO THE MAIN THREAD. You can spam-post them to everyone via chat rooms if you'd like. However, if people want to remember your views, then they will have to take "pictures" of them to do so (see below).

   E. When posting your view results to a chat room, you may only include one view result per line.

5. Tattoos. To remember vital information, Leonard would get it tattooed on his body. If the village manages to lynch that day's John G., then I will post the results of the Seer's next view to the public thread as a form of "tattoo" -- if the Seer survives to make his view.

6. If a Wolf (including the Wolf Cub) is lynched, then the Cub (if alive) is promoted and a remaining wolf becomes self-aware. If the Wolf Cub is still alive then it will be promoted to a full Wolf, but will not be informed of the promotion. Note that it is possible for the Wolf Cub to deduce when the promotion occurred, if that player has successfully viewed Teddy. The Wolf player to be informed will be chosen in the following order: Alpha Wolf, Wolf, and be told that exact information: "Alpha Wolf," or "Wolf."

7. You could be my John G. One possible outcome from Leonard's condition is that he might achieve his revenge, but then not remember it, and his quest would go on. If the wolves manage to target the newly-elected John G. in the same night (remember that if John G. is also a wolf, then he won't be killed), then:

   A. One previously-unaware Wolf will become self-aware. The Wolf player will be chosen in the following order: Alpha Wolf, Wolf, Wolf Cub, and be told that exact information: "Alpha Wolf," "Wolf," or "Wolf Cub."

   B. If all of the remaining wolves are already self-aware then one pair are made aware of each other. The wolves may become self-aware if: they kill John G., one of them gets lynched, or if the Wolf Cub successfully views Teddy Gammell. If all of the wolves know their identities and they also target the newly-elected John G., then one pair of wolf players will be made aware of each other, in the following order: Alpha Wolf - Wolf, Alpha Wolf - Wolf Cub.

   C. Any wolves who are self-aware will be informed of the Sorceror's next view via PM -- if the Sorceror survives to make his view.


Pictures

One of the clever ways that Leonard attempts to pass information to himself from one day to the next is to take Polaroid pictures. The following morning, he can thumb through his stack of photographs to bring himself back up to speed. In this game, each of you will have a special chatroom with me (separate from Mod chat) that will represent your collection of pictures. You will each be given one pack of "film" per day. Each pack has ten exposures. In Werewolf terms, you will be allowed to make 10 posts in this chat room each day. Each post can contain one line, copied from one of your other chat rooms. PLEASE DO NOT BULK-COPY SEVERAL LINES OF YOUR CONVERSATION IN ONE POST. Again, you are all on your honor to follow the rules. This chat room will not be truncated each day; it will be your method of persisting data from day-to-day.

Here is how pictures will work:

   - You must copy the entire line from your chat room, including its author and the timestamp.

   - You may not alter the line that you copy from one chat room into your picture collection. However, there is no guarantee that what you are copying is in fact the truth. I expect some people will attempt to deceive each other in the chat rooms.

   - You may not copy your own lines from any chat room.

   - You may not copy any lines from your mod chat room.


You may post your pictures to the main thread. You can publish any photograph using the following outline:

   - You must include the entire line from your picture chat room, beginning with the original author's name, and timestamp.

   - You may not alter the line that you copy from your picture collection to the main thread. Thus, any statement that appears in a picture is irrefutably attributed to its original author. There are no special abilities or planned game events that will change this fact. Whether that person was telling the truth at that time is known only to him or her.

   - You must place your pictures within spoiler tags, like this:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Beowulf May 8, 03:59 PM: Yeah. Go out with a bang.

   That will make it easier for other players and for me to quickly find the pictures. Plus, the act of mousing over the spoiler block to make the message appear is like shaking the Polaroid picture to hasten its development. Yes, the idea is gimicky, but I like it.


Order of Night Actions

1. Election of new John G.
2. Wolf Kill/Wolf Cub view
3. Seer/Sorceror views
4. Tattoos/Wolf Revelations


Roles/Victory Conditions

1 Seer: views one person each night for wolf/non-wolf. If views the Wolf Cub, will receive a view of "Wolf." Any view of "Wolf" will also make the Seer self-aware. Wins if the village wins, even postumously.

1 Sorceror : views one person each night for seer/non-seer. A view of "Seer" will make the Sorceror self-aware. Wins if the wolves wins, even postumously.

2 Wolves: Submits a name each night for the kill. Since there are two people, and it is unlikely that they will always pick the same person, there will be a rotating Alpha Wolf designation. The Alpha wolf's vote takes precedence, and will set the target of the night kill in the event of a tie. The following night, the other wolf (if still alive) becomes the Alpha Wolf. Wolves cannot kill each other in the night, not even the Cub. That means if there is no night kill, then the wolves targeted one of their own. Wins if the number of wolves (including the Cub) is equal to the remaining number of non-wolves.

1 Wolf Cub: Views one person each night for Teddy/non-Teddy. A view of "Teddy" will make the Wolf Cub self-aware. Gets promoted to full wolf if one of the wolves dies. If the Wolf Cub is promoted to Wolf, then it loses the ability to view players (but does enter the rotation for Alpha Wolf status). Counts towards the parity numbers for evil's victory condition.

Teddy Gammell: Teddy knows Leonard's full story. Teddy is the only player who starts the game being self-aware. Each night learns the identity of the newly-elected "John G." If there is a tie in the voting for John G., then Teddy will be asked to break it. Wins if he survives to the end of the game.

14 Villagers: submit a name each night. The person who receives the most votes becomes the next John G. Note that this person could be anyone, including a Wolf, one of the special roles, or Teddy.

Total: 20 players. The total number of players is necessary to allow you enough time to discover your roles. Assuming you do not find any wolves, you will have seven game-days before parity is reached.


Other Information

- All players have N0 actions. There will be no posting to the thread, or usage of chat rooms on N0, other than your individual Mod chat rooms to answer any questions and to submit your vote. Someone will be killed on N0. I know that is going to be disappointing for one of you, but it has to be this way.

- EACH PLAYER MUST MAKE AT LEAST ONE MEANINGFUL POST TO THE THREAD EACH DAY, AND SUBMIT A NIGHT ORDER EVERY NIGHT OR YOU WILL BE REPLACED IMMEDIATELY. "Meaningful" is up to my discretion, so make it good. "Hi, just checking in" does not qualify. Notifications of availability issues posted to the public thread in advance will be taken into account.

- Roles will be revealed on death, both by lynch and by night kill.

- If the player who is John G. for that day is lynched or killed, then that fact will not be revealed. Only Teddy will know for sure.

- Lynch time will be 10:00 PM CDT (BGG time).

- Night orders are due by 10:00 AM CDT (twelve hours later). Failure to submit night orders will result in a forfeiture of your action for that night. Repeated failures will result in your being replaced. Don't pull a "Royalwulf" and forget to submit. Enter your orders early, include conditionals if you'd like, and revise them as desired. I'll use the last ones submitted. I will wait the full twelve hours before dawn, so that inferences may not be made as to who was available to submit orders.

- The deadline minute will count. Votes posted at 10:00 PM will affect the tally. Votes posted at 10:01 PM will not.

- Players may vote for nightfall. If a majority of players vote for nightfall such that the outcome is assured, then it will be done. You cannot change your vote or unvote nightfall once you have done so. Dawn will not be posted early unless there is a unanimous vote on that specific issue (again, I don't want any inferences to be made about who might have been present to submit orders).

- Any ties will be broken by the Longest Held Last Vote (LHLV).

- DO NOT DISCUSS NIGHT 0 VOTING STRATEGIES AT ANY TIME.
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer
dbmurph22 wrote:
I love Memento too, John G. Look forward to it. Though I imagine with the backwards narrative, short term memory loss, and theme of the limitedness of perception you have a tough task ahead.

Will you include the side stuff of Sammy Jankis? Will you leave things cloudy or pretty much run with your interpretation of the movie - especially the Sammy Jankis thing. That's the main speculative part of the movie.
I know that there are a lot of people who are nearly religious when it comes to this movie. I'm hoping to tap that enthusiasm, because doing so will make the game a more enjoyable experience for everyone. Keeping that in mind, I don't want to alienate someone because my interpretation of the movie doesn't coincide with his or hers.

At present, I don't plan on involving Sammy Jankis. The game is going to center around the investigation and pursuit of John G.

dbmurph22 wrote:
I've been poking around other WW/Mafia Sites lately (m-scum, 2+2, and a couple other smaller boards) and have seen a few of our migrant friends (Luckay (who's on both 2+2 and Scum), DK, LC, and Thesp). I thought one good turn deserves another. Haven't actually got in any games, just poked around. I'd never abandon my beloved BGG but I might get in a game here and there or throw out an invite for a game I'd run here.

Anyway, on the Scum site they have their own insiders and brainstorms. But one is this Time Travel sort of game. I haven't read into it that much, but generally it seems it may have potential to foster some good ideas for your Memento game, Beo. Not sure if you have all the mechanics down yet or not.

But, here is the Mafiascum Wiki page: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

And here's that mechanic:
"# MafiaScum.net Time Travel mafia allows players to alter history with their night choices. Roles are not revealed on death in this variation because players can be brought back to life at any stage. Time travelling roles are usually restricted to prevent chaos. Standard roles are "Coroner" who can investigate a corpse at night. "Blocker" who can prevent a player time travelling. "Serial Killer" who can travel back 1 or 2 nights to kill someone. One of the major changes in Time Travel mafia is that the person with the most votes at the end of a set time is lynched. This means that if a player votes and then dies on a previous night due to a history change, the vote is effectively nullified.#"
While the movie did a fantastic job of syncopating the forward and backward narratives, the whole story is still linear. I don't think that time travel would be appropriate. I plan on using the flavor of lynches and night kills to simulate the movie's composition, but each event will be discrete and unalterable.

Esuh's Time Cops (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/126659) used the time-traveling mechanism in a proper context.
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer
Player List According to Cassandra:
Avin
Belash
CapAp
Esuh
funktard
fusionguy1
GrimJester
jmilum
kimapesan
kristiefix
Latria
Lauramath
le_cygne
LuckayLuck
riot
Rukasu
ScottHoward
Shugyosha
simply4est
Xandryyte

20 players are signed up.

To sign up for this game go to
http://www.thecassandraproject.org/jeremy/werewolf/game/1558...
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer
Alternates

1st:
2nd:
3rd:
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer
The rules have been posted above. I have listed them as version "0.9" because there are two items which I am still mulling over:

1. The total number of players in the game. Since there will be an N0 kill, the number needs to be even. Is 22 too many?

2. If Teddy Gammell should be a Tinker, showing up as "Wolf" to the Seer, and as "Seer" to the Sorceror. I suspect his staying alive will be hard enough without this additional complication.

Discuss.
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
I signed up before I could do it using Cassandra.
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
CapAp wrote:
I signed up before I could do it using Cassandra.
Heh. I'll accept sign-ups the old fashioned way, on this thread. When I open the Cassandra signups, I will first add the people who signed up here.

In other words, I'm rewarding early participation.
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
I'm game.

I was initially confused about the point of electing the John G. role, but after re-reading the rules, I get it. What would happen if the alpha wolf targeted another wolf after that wolf had been selected as the new John G? Would he still become self aware even though he didn't kill the other wolf? I'm confused about the point of electing a new John G. every night. I've read the rules multiple times and sort of get it. Teddy's main purpose is to get John G. killed right? Seems like the John G. role is more likely to benefit the village than the wolves, since Teddy can assist the villager in going after John G. but can't really help the wolves. Having to elect the John G. role every night seems confusing...

What?

Have I told you about my condition?

EDIT: BTW, these are actual questions I have.
 
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Good golly people... my username has a lower case x!!
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
I signed up even before this thread was created!
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
in!

am

I
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
In, definately.
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
riot wrote:
I was initially confused about the point of electing the John G. role, but after re-reading the rules, I get it. What would happen if the alpha wolf targeted another wolf after that wolf had been selected as the new John G? Would he still become self aware even though he didn't kill the other wolf?
Good question. I'll change the rules to say if the wolves successfully target the newly-elected John G...

Yes. One more wolf becomes self-aware, and there would be no night kill.

Riot wrote:
I'm confused about the point of electing a new John G. every night. I've read the rules multiple times and sort of get it. Teddy's main purpose is to get John G. killed right?
Teddy's main purpose is to serve his own interests. Yes: getting John G. lynched helps the village. Too many posted Seer views, and the wolves will kill Teddy in a heartbeat.

Riot wrote:
Seems like the John G. role is more likely to benefit the village than the wolves, since Teddy can assist the villager in going after John G. but can't really help the wolves.
Again, if Teddy does too much helping, he'll get night-killed. Not good for his victory condition of staying alive. He loses if he dies, even if the village wins.

I see your point about Teddy not being able to help the wolves. In an earlier version of the rules, the wolves earned their reward if they killed the "previous" John G. -- the one who was elected the night before. That way Teddy could help them if he chose to do so. The problem was that nothing stopped Teddy from getting in bed with the wolves from the get-go in that scenario. I'd prefer for him to have to sow FUD if he's going to help evil (by misleading Good on the identity of John G.) instead of being a sure-fire success for the wolves.

Riot wrote:
Having to elect the John G. role every night seems confusing...
It's mostly thematic. If you've seen the movie, then you know that the identity of John G. could change. Plus, it gives people something to disucss: for whom are they going to vote?

The village would always prefer to lynch a wolf. Their next preference should be to lynch John G (unless John G. happens to be the Seer, but I digress). Let's say that in the early game a bunch of people decide to form a majority, elect someone to be the new John G. with the intention of lynching that person the next day and getting a free Seer view.

Now, let's say one of those conspirators happens to be the Alpha Wolf -- even if he doesn't know it! See what happens? You've just elected and killed a new John G. And Teddy is going to know that the wolves just got smarter.
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
Beowulf wrote:
It's mostly thematic. If you've seen the movie, then you know that the identity of John G. could change.
I've seen the movie... Hence the repeating myself in my post... But you probably already knew that.
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
most excellent-sounding, I'll be in this one!
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
thread signups.... how 2005ish

I would like to play if you'll have me
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
Okay I'll put my name in for now. I make no guarantees that I'll actually be able to play when the date comes... but I probably will.


And Beo, anything you can do to tighten up the page? It's like three monitors wide!
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
I just signed up via my new tattoo.
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
jmilum wrote:
thread signups.... how 2005ish

I would like to play if you'll have me
Of course you can play.

I'm allowing early signups on the thread to reward those people who are actually interested in the game, before I open it up to the casual browser using your most excellent assistant, Cassandra.
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
kimapesan wrote:
Okay I'll put my name in for now. I make no guarantees that I'll actually be able to play when the date comes... but I probably will.


And Beo, anything you can do to tighten up the page? It's like three monitors wide!
Really? It looks fine for me, auto-sizing to monitor resolution. Are you stretching your desktop across all three monitors?
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
Beowulf wrote:
kimapesan wrote:
Okay I'll put my name in for now. I make no guarantees that I'll actually be able to play when the date comes... but I probably will.


And Beo, anything you can do to tighten up the page? It's like three monitors wide!
Really? It looks fine for me, auto-sizing to monitor resolution. Are you stretching your desktop across all three monitors?
I'm seeing the same problem, by the way: ~3 monitors in IE, only ~1.25 in Firefox.
 
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MK
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
No, I'm sized for a normal laptop monitor. The screen has a massive width, have to scroll forever to find Reply button.
 
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    Conserve energy:     Play Board Games!
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
Better?
 
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
Beowulf wrote:
Better?

Quite, I can actually read the rules now!
 
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
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Re: Memento - Coming this summer - RULES POSTED
kimapesan wrote:
Quite, I can actually read the rules now!
The problem was one of white space, that was exacerbated by how BGG and CSS interact.

HTML rendering usually removes excess white space. That sucks when you want to do something like indent. In the past, I've used BGG code tags to preserve a tab character for table formatting. That works fine, so long as your data isn't too wide.

I used the same trick in the rules to indent the letters. The tab character was preserved just fine, but once the code tag was used on a line, IE was particularly diligent in not wrapping. You guys were suffering from having the paragraphs that followed such indentation being strung out on a single line. Sorry about that.

Surprisingly enough, I was writing (and previewing, honest!) in Firefox. It all looked fine from where I was sitting.

I've switched to using non-breaking spaces to indent. They will probably be lost if you quote the rules, since I used the HTML code equivalent when I wrote it. BGG does screwy things like that: it will display an extended character just fine if you use its HTML code, but then goes crazy in a quoting situation when the code gets replaced by the actual character.

I am seriously impressed with those of you who managed to read the rules with the poor formatting!
 
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