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Subject: ChitChat About Werewolf rss

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Walker
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I like BlackSheep's idea of making auxes count for parity while a wolf is alive, but I'm not really sure how that changes the balance of the game. Maybe not by much? Is it just the difference between evil having to coordinate a few dates of votes or winning right away?
 
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Greg Wilson
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twomillionbucks wrote:
I like BlackSheep's idea of making auxes count for parity while a wolf is alive, but I'm not really sure how that changes the balance of the game. Maybe not by much? Is it just the difference between evil having to coordinate a few dates of votes or winning right away?

It stops the LHLV race; if evil ever has half the votes, they win immediately. But good doesn't have to take out the auxes to win.

It's a small tweak, yeah.
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Madeline B
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twomillionbucks wrote:
I've moved in the direction of making all auxes cultists or at least giving them some solid start info. I like playing informed auxes.
*shudders*

For me this is the actual worst because informed aux roles have most of the downsides of being wolf (over-informedness, unnatural sounding reads), without even the upside of "well at least if I sound good, I can help my team win."

I'd like to think I might be okay at sorcerer/uninformed type roles, but I'm not even sure if that's true.
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RoyalApe wrote:
Smugs wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
Too many, or too powerful, auxes can also be a problem for a game design. If the village leaves them alive then they contribute to vote control or use their powers, but if they get lynched the village is losing parity clicks. Tough or brutal auxes are particularly nasty.

A few veterans will remember the game where we lynched evil every day for eight days straight and lost.

My games often had no auxes, or only things like cubs that promote to maxes. When I did use auxes, I usually had a rule that made them count for parity so long as a wolf was still alive.

That parity count seems like a good idea to prevent LHLV races actually.
It wouldn't work in the fast fiver though for instance where game sees sorc need to decide between wolf/Hunter.
Theoretically the fast fiver won't have any days with even counts.
 
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The Original Thumb #50
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nolemonplease wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
Smugs wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
Too many, or too powerful, auxes can also be a problem for a game design. If the village leaves them alive then they contribute to vote control or use their powers, but if they get lynched the village is losing parity clicks. Tough or brutal auxes are particularly nasty.

A few veterans will remember the game where we lynched evil every day for eight days straight and lost.

My games often had no auxes, or only things like cubs that promote to maxes. When I did use auxes, I usually had a rule that made them count for parity so long as a wolf was still alive.

That parity count seems like a good idea to prevent LHLV races actually.
It wouldn't work in the fast fiver though for instance where game sees sorc need to decide between wolf/Hunter.
Theoretically the fast fiver won't have any days with even counts.

How about if one of the auxes is a banana?
 
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Day (she/her)
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nolemonplease wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
Smugs wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
Too many, or too powerful, auxes can also be a problem for a game design. If the village leaves them alive then they contribute to vote control or use their powers, but if they get lynched the village is losing parity clicks. Tough or brutal auxes are particularly nasty.

A few veterans will remember the game where we lynched evil every day for eight days straight and lost.

My games often had no auxes, or only things like cubs that promote to maxes. When I did use auxes, I usually had a rule that made them count for parity so long as a wolf was still alive.

That parity count seems like a good idea to prevent LHLV races actually.
It wouldn't work in the fast fiver though for instance where game sees sorc need to decide between wolf/Hunter.
Theoretically the fast fiver won't have any days with even counts.

But Wolf team would auto win if Sorc made it to D2.
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Ryan Gatti
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Smugs wrote:
nolemonplease wrote:
RoyalApe wrote:
Smugs wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
Too many, or too powerful, auxes can also be a problem for a game design. If the village leaves them alive then they contribute to vote control or use their powers, but if they get lynched the village is losing parity clicks. Tough or brutal auxes are particularly nasty.

A few veterans will remember the game where we lynched evil every day for eight days straight and lost.

My games often had no auxes, or only things like cubs that promote to maxes. When I did use auxes, I usually had a rule that made them count for parity so long as a wolf was still alive.

That parity count seems like a good idea to prevent LHLV races actually.
It wouldn't work in the fast fiver though for instance where game sees sorc need to decide between wolf/Hunter.
Theoretically the fast fiver won't have any days with even counts.

But Wolf team would auto win if Sorc made it to D2.
Eliminating the drama of a D2 Wolf, Sorc, and Hunter final 3 would be a heavy price for giving the Sorc parity.
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Walker
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"The significance of a person's life is determined by the story they believe themselves to be in." - Wendell Berry "If nothing lies beyond the pale of death, then nothing of value lies before it." - SMBC
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5ers and 9ers and 19ers and maybe a few other sets are specifically balanced to have distinctive effects produced by the presence of auxes. I think those sort of games show why auxes can enhance a game.

Auxes aren't bad, there's just some skill involved in including them in sets, like with most things.
 
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Sittin' on my porch sippin' lemonade while admirin' my perfect lawn, I do declare:

Sorcerers (and other uninformed evils) are Fun.
Informed non-parity evils like cultists are ok too but always less-good.
Hunters and bodyguards are bad roles (except hunter in 5-player). Martyrs are fine.
Neutrals are evils, and almost always make a game worse.
Toughs are almost always bad.
Uninformed brutals and kills are good (informed brutals are tolerable).
Vote control is a perfectly fine way for evil to win. It's like the flipside of goods' math win.
A medium or large game can have "bad" elements and still be good.
Balance is (maximum mislynches) vs. (parity evils). If it's more complicated than that then you can't calculate "balance" well and certainly not as precisely as you think you can.
Precision Werewolf is unfun.
Balance is overrated.
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