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Subject: Occupied city - units in training? rss

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Frank Vleugels
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We last played a 2x2 player game. In the same round both coalitions lose one city. The 2 players who had lost a city had no outpost but still had units in training.

Question : can you bring units, who just have been trained, on to the board while your city is occupied by an enemy force?
We ruled that you can not do this.
Your opinion?
 
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Geert VG
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Re:Occupied city - units in training?
frwings (#21930),

I understand why you ruled this can't be done, it sounds like the most logical decision. But...
If you can't bring in units that are already in training, the game is as good as finished (often, and to my experience, there will be no friendly units in the vacinity left to aid your city). All your enemy has to do is remain in the undefended city for one more turn (btw, that's how we deal with this other rule on destroying cities: when you enter an enemy city - one damage. Next round still there - 2 damage, game over. Agree?) and the game is over. Looks like sudden (too sudden) death to me. I don't think this is the way it was meant to be...
So, when this situation occured to us, we ruled the trained unit could enter their city. Makes sense?
 
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Pantera
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Re:Occupied city - units in training?
It is stated in the manual actually:

Deploying Units and Workers:
During your Deploy Step, you may take any of your units and
workers that are in training (as explained later in these rules) and place them on your Town and/or Outpost space. If units or workers enter play in a Town occupied by enemy units, no units or workers (regardless of whose they are) may leave the space, and the battle is resolved during the Move Step as normal.


Depletion marker is important here. Under the heading Defenseless Workers, Outposts, and Towns you find that you will place a partial depletion marker on the Town if there is enemy units there after all moves and battles in a round. If there is already an partial depletion marker there, it is turned to show that the town is destroyed and the owning player and team is destroyed.

I.e. it is not a good thing to allow enemy units enter your town.

I think this is a good simulation of the game. You can still produce units in a town under attack, but if you don't kick out the attackers fast, your town will be destroyed. In the computer game, getting your main town razed will normally mean that you loose. There are some few cases where it isn't true, but mostly it is so.

(It is called Town in the manual, not City, just to make clear that it is the same thing)
 
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Pantera
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Re:Occupied city - units in training?
I begun to answer before I had seen Garions reply. =)

Anyway, in this case there is an interesting question. What if both players fail to defend their Towns and loose it? The manual states that a player and team looses when its town is destroyed, but what if one of each team lost it in the same turn? I would rule that the two players left would fight it out.
 
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John So-And-So
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Re:Occupied city - units in training?
I would do the same (let the 2 remaining players fight it out), although I think that the rules would have you call the game a draw (both sides lose).

John
 
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Frank Vleugels
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Re:Occupied city - units in training?
Thanks for the suggestions.

We based our rulings on our experience with other boardgames. But in the PC-game your town can indeed still train units while under attack.

We ruled a draw just because it was getting late, but both surviving player could have battled on...
 
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a k
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Re:Occupied city - units in training?
I say to the bloody end!
 
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Chris Hawks
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Re:Occupied city - units in training?
Pantera wrote:
What if both players fail to defend their Towns and loose it? The manual states that a player and team looses when its town is destroyed, but what if one of each team lost it in the same turn? I would rule that the two players left would fight it out.


But you can't have two teams lose a city at the same time, since each player has a separate Move Turn. And Towns are only depleted/destroyed at the end of a Move Turn. Thus, if I had an attacking force on my opponent's Town, and he had one on mine, and both Towns were partially depleted, then whoever takes the next Move Turn wins, because only then is the opposing Town destroyed.

...Unless I'm totally misunderstanding the question.
 
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Jan Evan
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Salt-Man Z wrote:


But you can't have two teams lose a city at the same time, since each player has a separate Move Turn. And Towns are only depleted/destroyed at the end of a Move Turn. Thus, if I had an attacking force on my opponent's Town, and he had one on mine, and both Towns were partially depleted, then whoever takes the next Move Turn wins, because only then is the opposing Town destroyed.

...Unless I'm totally misunderstanding the question.


You got the question right, but I'm not quite convinced you got the answer right.

The rules say that
If all players have finished their Move Steps, and after all battles have been resolved, any player whose Town space contains enemy units places a partial depletion marker (that is, a depletion marker with the “partial depletion” side face-up) on his Town space.

Therefore, the depletion markers are placed on the towns simultaneously after all players' move step is executed (i.e., immediately before first player's harvest step). This is quite important, because it may give the defending player (or his/her team-mate) time to come to aid the town and repel the attacker. Just to clarify - this is somewhat different situation from that of defenseless outposts and workers, which are removed immediately.

The rules also say that

If there is already a partial depletion marker on the Town, that player and any teammates he may have are immediately eliminated from the game. Remove those players’ workers, units, and Outposts from the board. If this leaves only a single player or team in the game, the game ends and that player or team wins.

This would lead me to someone's earlier conclusion that the game is a draw, because both teams would be immediately eliminated from the game. That's also how my play group resolved this situation when it once occurred.

Nevertheless, I have a great deal of sympathy for the "till the bloody end" suggestion, although it is more of a home-rule rather than an exact interpretation of the wording of the rules.
 
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Seth Jaffee
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I used to think that the game would end as soon as one player got eliminated, but today my friend pointed out to me that under winning, it says that losing a town means THAT PLAYER is out of the game. Which implies that the game isn't over yet. I'll look again to see if I find what you quoted, which seems to clearly state that the gam eis over at that point.
 
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