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Subject: How to beat this Jinteki deck? rss

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C&H Schmidt
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Hallo fellow Netrunners!

I am a relatively new Netrunner player. My partner has bought the base set and quite a number of expansions (see my collection) and we almost exclusively play against each other. Most of the time, he plays the corp and I play the runner; somehow these roles align with our tastes the most.
We often take decklists from netrunnerdb to try new decks and to see what experienced players have come up with (of course we can't take the very hottest decks, because we don't own all the new cards, but that's perfectly fine; lots of interesting options still).

My partner currently plays with the following Jinteki deck:
https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/33072/stabbing-headache-...
It has a low agenda density and agendas that are difficult to steal or do net damage (Fetal AI, House of Knives, the Future Perfect), has the Identity that does net damage whenever an agenda is scored or stolen, and lots of traps that do net damage on top. There is not a lot of ICE, the worst seems to be Checkpoint.
Generally, there were several external servers with not much ICE protecting them, but the deck deals tons of net damage.

I have now lost twice miserably against this deck, to the point where I don't feel like anything I try can make we win.
I have the suspicion that my usual tactics as a runner just don't work against this deck -- normally I run R&D very aggressively every turn or nearly every turn (or HQ, particularly if I play with Silhouette, one of my favourite runner IDs) until I either win or the corp protects it well enough, hopefully leaving something else open in the process. On the way, I build my breaker suite.

I am not a very experienced player, so I don't really know what else to do, but against this deck, that just doesn't seem to work: Running a lot gives me lots of net damage; accessing lots of cards in R&D gives me lots of net damage; in the last game HQ was protected by the strength 7 code gate, when I only had a strenth one decoder; and when I access an agenda, it usually can't be stolen that easily (in my last game, I only ever mentioned to access The Future Perfect and Fetal AI with less than two cards in hand).
Yet, building my breaker suite didn't really seem to be worthwile, because there wasn't really much else to break through. Also, I almost immediately lost most of my cards very soon after drawing them.
In one game, I had the most wonderful R&D lock, but got overeager drawing cards until I died from accessing 7 cards at once without a single agenda being among them.

Can anybody offer some tips on what to try next?
I'd be very thankful!
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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The way I would handle a deck like this is econ denial. You're right that it's a pretty scary deck, but the corp needs the money to follow through on its scariness with actual danger. The lack of ice means it's pretty vulnerable to Account Siphon and Vamp. Once they're at 0 credits, everything but Shock and an already-rezzed Dedicated Response Team is harmless. Then you just need to keep the pressure on them as hard as you can.
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Clyde W
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As Anon Y. Mous says, if you keep the Corp poor (0-3 credits), they can't fire their Snares.

Also, if you're 100% sure they're going to be playing Jinteki, you can always rely on these cards:

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/card/01045


https://netrunnerdb.com/en/card/03037


https://netrunnerdb.com/en/card/02066


https://netrunnerdb.com/en/card/07032


and

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/card/10064


Sports Hopper is the latest damage prevention card and it isn't even a dead draw against other matchups, as it allows you to trade 3 credits for 3 draws, with the bonus of a link (which helps you stave off that Checkpoint damage as well).

Given that you know the tech of your opponent, you should be easily able to combat it by keeping them poor and relying on the above cards.
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David Preston
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All the above answers are good places to start! another idea is to include several film critics. its a shaper connection that allows you to host an accessed agenda and then spend two clicks at any time to add the agenda to your score area. since its a card ability not an activated ability, the film critic can be used before the "when accessed" abilities on ANY agenda so this avoids the psi game on the future perfect and the net damage plus tax on fetal. its also only 1 influence so it can be splashed into other factions fairly easily. Good luck!
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C&H Schmidt
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Thanks for the suggestions!

We do actually have Vamp and Account Siphon, but I don't think I've ever used them in a deck until now!
We also have several of the "anti net damage" cards (though not all), but we don't have film critic.

The corp did indeed have lots of money in the last game (Hedge Fonds+Jackson Howard --> more hedge fonds), but I didn't have an efficient way of making them lose it, because there was almost no ice to rez and I didn't want to run into the devastating expensive traps.

Anyway, I'll try to make a new deck and integrate the suggested cards. Any suggestion what faction/ identity I should be looking at?
 
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Clyde W
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You can go a bunch of different ways. Clearly Shaper is best at net damage prevention. If you want to do the I've Had Worse/Sports Hopper route, Whizzard is currently a strong choice in the meta that you might have access to. I would probably avoid Faust-based decks (given that cards are what you need in order to not die) and go with a combo of fixed-breakers, Datasucker and Parasite, which could really upset your corp player. Killing their Checkpoint will make them very sad.

Having said all that, the most interesting route to go would be Geist, which is a Criminal ID that draws a card every time you use a trash ability. So for instance, in Sports Hopper above, you'd draw four cards. There's support cards that give you money for using trash abilities on your cards as well, helping him out considerably. The Sports Hopper also turns on his Cloud Suite of trashable breakers.

Finally, Nero could be fun to play with, as he's allowed to jack out once per turn after encountering a Sentry. This can help you keep the corp a bit poorer while avoiding their nasty ice.

Maybe try one of these decks?
https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/34725/hot-gossip-v4
https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/34823/pervert
https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/34941/my-nerd-deck
https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/34756/brahmanetrara
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C&H Schmidt
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Thanks for the lists!
I will try to adapt one of them using the cards we own and see how it goes!
Afterwards I'll probably report back.
 
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Aaron E.
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You've got some great advice on deck-building, so you're good there. I want to point out that while these kinds of decks are really intimidating to new players, you will start learning their tricks as you practice. Being able to answer the question "What's the worst thing that could happen?" is really important in these matchups. If you avoid being flatlined, decks with Fetal and FP often have a hard time scoring out. Soon, you'll be able to beat these decks no matter which runner deck you're playing. Here are a few tips though:

If the corp has 4 creds, be ready for snare (3 cards in hand, plus 1 if you suspect dedicated response team is on the board).

If they have 5, be ready for Komainu.

Always have 2 credits on hand to steal a fetal.

Remember that sentries are the ice that deal net damage, so an early Killer (sentry breaker) is important.

If possible, just don't play their Mushin game and focus on centrals. If they do Mushin out a card and you feel like you need to check it, start by running a different server and trying to get them to spend money. If you can get them down to 0, all their traps are turned off and the mushin'ed card is safe to run.

Remember that you can just bounce off of Checkpoint (jack out) and you won't take damage as the run wasn't successful. Plus you get a bad pub from their rez, which can be used for future ice-breaking and psi games (or anything else during a run).
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Sonny A.
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Film Critic is also great against that deck. Let you take the Fetals and The Future Perfect easier.
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Grant Whitesell
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What he said. Film Critic basically blanks PE's ID.

As others have said - Econ, Econ, Econ. Jinteki typically has to rely on solutions like Mental Health Campaign (which is anti-synergistic with a flatline strategy) or cards like Celebrity Gift and Medical Research Fundraiser. However, they are far more vulnerable when below five credits. They can't bounce back from this as easily as other factions without importing things and burning precious influence.

So, a couple of things to remember:

Always be watching the Corp's coffers. You want to hammer their econ before you start going on deep digs. 4 is the magic credit number for triggering Snare!, so always keep that in mind.

If you think they're bluffing out an agenda but aren't sure and don't have Expose ability, a broke corp is one that can't trigger traps. Alternately, the "draw up and run" is another way to deal with this.

Remember that even though you do take the 2 net from Accessing Fetal AI, because it has a cost-to-steal, you have the option of not paying it. If the net damage from the steal drops you to Neural EMP range, consider refusing to pay and not taking it until you are in a better position to soak the damage.

Criminals are the weakest at recursion, so consider Same Old Thing, Levy AR Lab access if you want to go the "draw up and check it" route. Some decks synergize better with this than others.

The most IMPORTANT thing that you can do in order to learn how to beat that deck...is to use it. I can't stress that enough.
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C&H Schmidt
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I just played with this Jinteki deck; I also thought I might learn how to beat it by playing it myself.

Anyway, my partner as runner played very similarly to me in the past two games (running R&D and HQ) and very quickly pulled enough agendas out of my hand and R&D to get to 6 points, then stole the last by playing Femme Fatale on my (not-yet rezzed) mean ICE that I thought was foolproof in this situation and would have killed him, at least if he had tried to access the agenda (Fetal AI).
I felt really cheated. I had lots of money to set off traps, but no traps in the right places. And when I played runner last time, I NEVER got any agendas from R&D or HQ except stupid Future Perfect that you can't steal (accessed that first from R&D and then HQ twice before my partner scored it).

Played again right after and won very quickly by getting him to access a Project Junebug with 3 advancement tokens on it (I used Mushin no shin to play it). I don't expect that to work twice, though -- he had forgotten that project Junebug was in that deck.
 
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Sonny A.
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Gswp wrote:

Played again right after and won very quickly by getting him to access a Project Junebug with 3 advancement tokens on it (I used Mushin no shin to play it). I don't expect that to work twice, though -- he had forgotten that project Junebug was in that deck.


If it doesn't work twice, then Mushin out an agenda next time. He'll believe it's an ambush. No rush either. If the runner decides it's a trap and you don't score or further advance it, he'll most likely leave it alone for the rest of the game.

You can let it sit there until you need to do the 1 damage (from ID) or need the final agenda point scored to win the game.
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Grant Whitesell
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^^^^ THAT. ^^^^

Many times my wins with PE have come with leaving a Mushin'd out Philotic Entanglement on the board looking like a Junebug the entire game and then letting him dig me for 5 agendas or so.

Next turn - Neural EMP x2 if he drew up, score Philotic, BLAP, gg.
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Sonny A.
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GrantZilla1979 wrote:
^^^^ THAT. ^^^^

Many times my wins with PE have come with leaving a Mushin'd out Philotic Entanglement on the board looking like a Junebug the entire game and then letting him dig me for 5 agendas or so.

Next turn - Neural EMP x2 if he drew up, score Philotic, BLAP, gg.


Works even better if you install a Shell Corporation on it. Then the runner is certain it's an ambush
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