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Subject: Pueblo---A League of Untouchable American Gamers Review rss

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Mark Haberman
United States
Painesville
Ohio
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Why on earth do you keep playing Euro games if you hate them so much!

I stopped playing Ameritrash games very quickly after I realized they weren't for me.

(disclaimer: I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that I have a very strong preference for euros)
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Martin
United States
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habermanm wrote:
Why on earth do you keep playing Euro games if you hate them so much!


So that we don't have to
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Dave Gilligan
United States
Charleston
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I have played Pueblo a couple of times and have determined that at this point, I play it very poorly. Note, I say play, because I do see it as a game rather than simply a puzzle. For something to be a puzzle implies that there is a solution...a Rubik's Cube is a puzzle, a 500 piece jigsaw is a puzzle. Both have specific end states to be achieved and are solvable. Pueblo does not have a single specifc solution as I see it.

In Pueblo, there are a number of decision points that must be made. Obviously the first is how to arrange your piece to best advantage (or least disadvantage.) Sometimes this means knowingly placing a piece that will garner points early on with the expectation that you can correct the situation later or at least minimize the potential scoring. With a puzzle you don't have that luxury since each piece has a specific placement.

A second decision is how to move the chieftan. Fast, slow, move to a corner, hit a specific player and so on. How you move the cheiftan relative to your placements is an important part of the game.

When I play there is quite a bit of table talk, most often around how to drag a leader back to the pack. This social interaction is a large part of the game and with the right group can make the game much more engaging.

As for the theme, if you don't like it as written then maybe you would prefer the peeping tom theme better (it might be more in line with your Untouchable Gamer credo.) Instead of a chief its a peeping tom trying to see your scantily clad women and its your job to deny him his carnal pleasure. I believe someone posted this alternate theme here on BGG.

In regard to downtime, I found it to be minimal. I and the others I have played with are evaluating the board between turns, talking about the consequences of moves and so on. By the time my turn comes around I usually have a good idea of where I want to place my piece but this can be modified by the last play. For my group, downtime isn't an issue with this game.

I can see where you might find final scoring to be tedious. In my last game, however, the lead player smoked me and the third player so badly that we didn't even bother. Just looking at the final layout is was readily apparent that he won by a mile. The winner has played the game many more times than I have and has developed some skill at the game as evidenced by his convincing victory.

In the end, I think it comes down to a fundamental disagreement about Pueblo. You see it as a puzzle, I don't. The game is not your cup of tea (or can of beer as the case may be) and I certainly understand that. I respectfully disagree with your assessment and give the game a recommended.
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Daniel Kearns
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
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Finally, someone takes on this old chestnut and tells it like it is.

I mean, Pueblo doesn't make any sense at all. Honestly, what type of society zones construction based on wall color? Why would the chief hate colored buildings so much? What is his "motivation"? Did he catch his woman cheatin' or is he just a jerk? Other important character traits are conveniently (deliberately?) omitted like how many hit points does the chief have? Cause I bet we could take him out and then build whatever we feel like. Now that would provide some story. Some THEME. But no, this game blows. I'm not giving this one another go until the Pueblo: Action Card Expansion comes out.



Sorry all, this review was too fun and I had to give it a try.
 
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Richard Hutnik
United States
Albany
New York
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itsmarty wrote:
habermanm wrote:
Why on earth do you keep playing Euro games if you hate them so much!


So that we don't have to


Better give that 5 s pppp

If you do listen to them, then you will seriously miss on a great segment of games. While I would argue some Euros get tiresome, Pueblo is a different beast. It has puzzle elements to it, but this is no Riccochet Robot, it is an actual game. It is a rare game that is a symbol of humility to me. It also, believe it or not, as a "screw you" factor to it. The point is to set person up to score a LOT of points and lose the game. It is a game like hearts where you try not to score and stands out uniquely.

It does lay straight in the Euro camp, unashamedly so. If the game seems of interest, do consider getting it, or at least trying it. I find the game real good, and a Euro. And this is coming from someone who is burnt out on Euros.
 
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Tucson
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The box art on this game really fools you. It shows a great picture of an Indian with beautiful southwestern design. Gazing upon the art it certainly puts you in the mood for a wild west experience but the experience is polar opposite from wild, it is just plain dull!


These are Pueblo Indians. They excelled at defense and agrarian lifestyles. Spicing up the Pueblo theme would require adding some squash growing and irrigation planning.

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I will occasional enjoy an abstract game but this one has many many problems with it. The first being it is not a game at all! This is a PDAG!!!

PDAG—Puzzle Disguised AS Game


This statement makes me think that you haven't played the game very much. Admittedly the first game or two is more about figuring out how to fit the pieces together, but all the pieces have the same shape and it quickly becomes apparent the few ways they can fit together.

Once you figure that out it is more of a placement game to force your opponents into bad positions or keep them from being able to conceal offending colors all the while keeping your own pieces out of sight. In fact the lack of variety in the pieces makes it pretty weak as a puzzle in my opinion. If it didn't have the player interaction it wouldn't be either a game or a puzzle.

In my opinion it's a simple game with a simple puzzle element that succeeds only because of the extensive player interaction and the uniqueness of game play.


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To play this game right you really need a “lazy susan” because you are constantly turning the game board at many different angles to analyze your possible placement options.


My board is actually slightly dish shaped. Not enough to get in the way of game play, but just enough to make spinning it around easy. But this isn't really a sit down game. Players need to get up and walk around the board to get an idea of what's going on or lean over the table to look down on in, or even get down to eye the game at the level of the table. I could see how some one who just wanted to sit down and stare contemplatively at a game could find this awkward.

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The one factor of the game I do like is the chieftain handing out points. You can move him in to really nail your opponent with penalties but this weak attempt at confrontation does very little to enhance the overall enjoyment of the game.


This is the game. Without the chieftain it would be the PDAG you describe.

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The scoring track is terrible. It is a confusing spiral. Like golf, low score wins in this game and the purpose of the scoring track is to instantly show who is winning and this one fails in that purpose.


Agree. It's especially annoying the way the design of the spaces change periodically and tricks you into thinking you should move to a different loop than the one you should be moving to.

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What is really disturbing about this game is the blatant pasted on theme.


Have you ever seen a Pueblo? They were all about square shapes and altitude, crawling up canyon walls or building up on top of mesas. The focus on height and rectangular shapes is appropriate to the theme even if it's not a simulation. And at least the theme is fairly unique.

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the tedium of the last round of play


While Kramer excels at throwing fiddly scoring rounds into his games, the final scoring round in Pueblo has always gone by pretty quick for me.

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One small positive factor of this game is that the box lid seems to come off without any problem, although I did get some slight resistance in the bottom right corner of the box.( Kudos go out to the "Chairman of the Board" for making this a mandatory review point)


I'll defer this type of discussion to you two aesthetes of box opening. Perhaps you and Tom can discuss such intricacies on a future pod-cast.

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induces ... “cube confusion”


If, as your review implies, you haven't played this game much perhaps ignorance is the source of your confusion and you're unjustly blaming those poor little cubes.
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I mean, Pueblo doesn't make any sense at all. Honestly, what type of society zones construction based on wall color?


Have you ever been to Sante Fe, NM? Everything down town is adobe colored. The state capital looks like an enormous kiva. I believe it is a city ordinance that everything has to look like it's made out of brown mud.
 
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While I don't know the inspiration for the architectural design of the NM state capitOlblush I was always struck how much this:
http://tinyurl.com/yw83ss

looked like this:
http://tinyurl.com/36uab8

I've never been to a kiva that was in use so they may be completely buried. I always assumed they extended above ground as in the second picture.
 
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Ken
United States
Portland
Oregon
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May I pass along my congratulations for your great interdimensional breakthrough. I am sure, in the miserable annals of the Earth, you will be duly enshrined. -- Lord John Whorfin
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the*mad*gamer wrote:
The box art on this game really fools you.


Tricked by that damn box. Sneaky box. I hate it when I'm out smarted by a box.

edited for kindness

 
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T. B.
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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Many Kivas are above ground. It depends on the Pueblo.
 
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Michael Leuchtenburg
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
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Steve,

Do you also think of Blokus as a PDAG? How about Go?
 
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cain geek
United States
Miami
Florida
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dkearns wrote:
Finally, someone takes on this old chestnut and tells it like it is.

I mean, Pueblo doesn't make any sense at all. Honestly, what type of society zones construction based on wall color? Why would the chief hate colored buildings so much? What is his "motivation"? Did he catch his woman cheatin' or is he just a jerk? Other important character traits are conveniently (deliberately?) omitted like how many hit points does the chief have? Cause I bet we could take him out and then build whatever we feel like. Now that would provide some story. Some THEME. But no, this game blows. I'm not giving this one another go until the Pueblo: Action Card Expansion comes out.



Sorry all, this review was too fun and I had to give it a try.


It is an ABSTRACT game.
The same is true of chess pawn: forward can not attack, only a step in the right or left in diagonal. If two pawns are facing opposite each other can not attack. What kind of pawn can not attack another pawn who is in front of him?
However, chess is my favorite abstract game.
These games dont are enjoyed by the "sense" that must have for our common sense, but rather the strategies that are created.


 
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