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World War II: Barbarossa to Berlin» Forums » General

Subject: Designers notes rss

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Gordon Watson
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Does anyone know if there are any designers notes available anywhere for this game?

I'm curious as to whether covering the whole war in Europe was considered, as opposed to just Barbarossa onwards. I love the game and the system and playing out the initial Blitzkreig and the fall (or not) of France, and the option for the Axis to go for the UK, is intriging. I guess tha variability of outcomes may have put a strain on the game system in terms of Strategy Deck composition.
 
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Allen Doum
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There has been mention of a planned prequel: World War II: A to A. I believe the A's stand for Appeasement and Armageddon, but am not sure about that.
 
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Jon W
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Go to the folder on consimworld for BtB. There are no formalized "designer's notes" there, but read through most of Ted Raicer's comments and you get a strong sense of what that sort of document usually provides. Very good stuff there, but it is somewhat tedious to wade through all the "noise," as the content is uncategorized and unstructured.
 
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Gordon Watson
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Allen - where did you hear mention of the prequel?

Jon - I did have quick look at Consimworld but it is really tiresome to wade through the general chit-chat so if there was a link to an article somewhere that would have been preferable. Thanks all the same - I guess I'll have to trawl.
 
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Paul Glenn
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Here are my thoughts on the question; I have no idea if Mr. Raicer was thinking them when he created the game.

It seems to me that the biggest problem in ETO games--and the one that leads to the most fiddly rules--is the '39-'41 period. If the German player is free to do *anything*, then the rules have to be able to handle anything. Which adds *lots* of complications. So the game would have to have rules for an incredible array of options. By cutting out these times, the game can avoid a lot of fiddly rules.

Also, the game doesn't have to deal with some historical matters that some ETO games don't deal well with. One of the biggest, I think, is "What if Germany never tried to invade the Soviet Union?" All ETO games I know assume that eventually it'll happen, and if not, the Soviets will attack Germany on their own (but much closer to Berlin). Historically, though, I think that it's not entirely clear what the Soviets would've done if the Germans hadn't invaded. Remember that the Soviets were shipping goods across the border to Germany until literally hours before the German invasion. So maybe the Soviets would've sat on the sidelines for several years. That'd make a complicated--and perhaps dull--game.

Just my thoughts.
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Gordon Watson
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Mike - the additional cost of another counter-sheet and more cards may well have been a consideration, however after the success that Ted Racier had with 'Paths of Glory' I think the initial print run of his WWII equivalent could probably have carried the cost. It certainly wouldn't have put me off and nor would it if an expansion to cover the early period were announced - but I am not the entire market and there are doubtless others who are more price sensitive than me.

I suspect that the problem was more due to the complexity of the strategy deck composition, as mentioned in my initial post, and elaborated effectively by both yourself and Paul. I can see some of the headaches that the sorting this aspect out would entail. I'm sure some rules could be drawn up to handle the forcing of the Axis to attack the Soviet Union while leaving the timimng in the hands of the player however certain aspects like fog of war for the build up of Axis forces on the Eastern front might be trickier - although there again, most of the histories claim that virtually everyone was aware of the build up and even the approximate date of the attack including stalin, who simply refused to believe it.

Having to weigh up whether to go for a kill on the UK, and the implications that has for US involvement, against an earlier attack on the USSR would be interesting for the Axis player. However it also may highlight another problem for the game if it was included, in that it would effectively add to the initial time the Allied player has to play on the defensive - frustrating for some players.

I was interested in how far TR wrestled with the pre-41 problems and what ultimately was the show stopper for it's inclusion.

Thanks for the replies.
 
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Gordon Watson
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Mike - I've looked at 'Shifting Sands' a couple of times but couldn't make up my mind as to whether to go CDG for the desert or 'block' ('Rommel in the Desert').

At the moment I'm still on the fence, and anyway I can't really justify another game when I have 'Monty's Gamble' sitting on the shelf unplayed, designed by some other bloke.

Ooh - just looked at 'Shifting Sands' again, it covers East Africa and the Mid East as well as N.Africa - Keren, interesting.

Thanks also for the background on WW2:BtB.
 
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Jackson Riker
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Gordon
Get real, you know you WANT both, so just GET both!
I have them both, and love them both, and they are similar enough to give you the proper historical feeling of the battle, but they differ in terms of the focus, and obviously the mechanics.
Rommel can only be played ftf, while I have heard of an article by Ted Raicer on how to play his cdgs solo....
 
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